NotFormer

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Posts by NotFormer

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  39

  Merry Christmas Everyone

  by jhine in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  it's that time of year again .

  in the words of the bard ( noddy holder ) " it's christmaaas " .

  merry christmas everybody .

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  NotFormer

  Merry Christmas, Jan! And to everyone!

  'In the words of the Bard ( Noddy Holder ) " It's Christmaaas "'

  The Christmas episode of Would I Lie to You? which features Noddy Holder is required viewing:

  https://youtu.be/BUfi9U4RIws?si=b3h_jca_uhLhxn44
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  46

  What makes a cult (in the pejorative sense)?

  by Vanderhoven7 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  michael moore writes:.

  a cult is an organization that enslaves minds and destroys families using cult mind control.

  cult mind control involves orchestrated deception, social pressure, psychological abuse, and repetitive indoctrination (brainwashing) centering around an unchallengeable ideology enforced in a totalitarian way in a closed socially-separatist community setting.

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  NotFormer

  "...are you telling me that we shouldn't disfellowship pedophiles...?"

  Yes, they should. More often than not, they don't. Thanks to the two witness rule. Which was implemented to protect the reputation of the WT at all costs, including the cost to actual justice. That's some pretty cultic behaviour, right there.

  "I consider it completely just that a pedophile is removed from the congregation."

  As would we all, should it happen, which it often doesn't, and the victim is expected to continue to attend with their abuser. That's some twisted cultic logic right there. And true justice involves actually calling the police; you know: the actual justice system! Not involving the secular authorities to protect the religion's reputation is again pretty cultic.
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  2952

  It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars (continued)

  by Simon in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  uh oh, looks like the mega thread gave up the ghost, so while i investigate / fix it just continue the discussion here .... it's been a long 9 years lloyd evans / john cedars.

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  NotFormer

  Is Billy Carson an exJW? I'm trying to figure out where he's coming from.
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  46

  What makes a cult (in the pejorative sense)?

  by Vanderhoven7 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  michael moore writes:.

  a cult is an organization that enslaves minds and destroys families using cult mind control.

  cult mind control involves orchestrated deception, social pressure, psychological abuse, and repetitive indoctrination (brainwashing) centering around an unchallengeable ideology enforced in a totalitarian way in a closed socially-separatist community setting.

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  NotFormer

  How about: "Jehovah's Witnesses are a high control religious group from which many people emerge emotionally and psychologically scarred"?

  It's true that being high control and religious doesn't make it necessarily "a cult". The above mentioned government is a good example of a secular cult. A lot of people on the Amway subreddit refer to Amway as a cult. It could be argued that the above mentioned anti-cult guy seems to believe that voting the same way that his former cult leader probably would have in the last US election might make you a cultist.

  The word "cult" is possibly overused to the extent that it has become meaningless. That doesn't mean that the JW religion isn't still a high pressure religion that causes damage to many of its adherents.
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  46

  What makes a cult (in the pejorative sense)?

  by Vanderhoven7 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  michael moore writes:.

  a cult is an organization that enslaves minds and destroys families using cult mind control.

  cult mind control involves orchestrated deception, social pressure, psychological abuse, and repetitive indoctrination (brainwashing) centering around an unchallengeable ideology enforced in a totalitarian way in a closed socially-separatist community setting.

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  NotFormer

  Just because your oppression is not to the extreme, it doesn't mean that you still aren't being oppressed.
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  22

  Memory hole, international conspiracy, and the JW international network

  by slimboyfat in

  1. social
  2. current

  can anyone else who was around 15 to 20 years ago remember an odd story about jw missionaries being stopped at the swiss/italian border with american bonds worth billions of dollars in their possession?

  because i can find little to no information about it anywhere online, yet at the time i am sure i recall it being reported by different mainstream news sources, including the bbc.

  why do some news stories seem to disappear from the internet altogether?

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  NotFormer

  I don't have a problem with the premise that the WT organisation is of sufficient scope and reach that it might be a tempting place to insert some agents. What I do have a problem with is this: you would want to have said agents at or near the top, both in NY Bethel and the various national Bethels, simply to make things easier for yourself down the track. There's a problem with this, which is often alluded to here: there is no clear and predictable path to the top. GB appointments seem to happen without any predictability; it just seems to be the most loyal Bethelite available when an appointment needs to be made. I imagine senior Bethel posts are not much more predictable or inevitable.

  IMO, government agencies or crime syndicates wanting to embed themselves within the JW network would have long ago made ascent to the higher levels of the organisation much easier and quicker.

  Back to an objection in this thread that the JW network would not be seen as useful from any covert point of view. Let's remember that da Judge was able to get his booze supply smuggled across the Canada/US border by his own couriers. The WT straddles a lot more borders these days.

  Do I believe that anything speculated about above has happened? Not firmly. It's possible, but not irresistibly probable. I won't say anything more than I have an open mind. Let's leave it at that. 😕
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  10

  Would You Get A Cease and Desist Letter From the WT if You...

  by NotFormer in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  ...put a christmas wreath that featured the jw.org logo on your door?

  🤔.

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  NotFormer

  The original question was more to draw attention to the idea of how JWs would react if they suddenly saw their symbol incorporated in something that they see as symbolically evil. And the vision of the JW.org symbol incorporated into a Christmas wreath caused me more amusement than it probably would most here.

  But, as is my wont*, I found out that the WT has actually been a bit sensitive about such things in the past, and there is a legal precedent. Apparently a Christmas album was released and it contained a song from the WT songbook that basically sounded kind of Christmassy. Well, WT Legal did their nut** and, of course, as is their wont, sued.

  https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/5693298898370560/suing-music-industry

  Back to the title, it's not just Christmas wreaths. The WT symbol on a large inflatable Santa would probably be funnier. Or spelled out in Rattigan's worldly Christmas lights:

  https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/5107191200088064/ive-done-christmas-lights-outside

  * Stoopid autocorrect. I had to fight it to get the totally correct English word "wont" on the page. 🙄

  ** Meaning they got very angry in an older way of speaking.
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  19

  New here

  by AdamCzarnobay in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i left the organization in 2017.. was in several congregations in the north west of england.

  i just wanted to say thank you to all of you that have posted on here over the years, it really helped me to see the truth about the organization.

  i lurked here for many years under an anonymous login and then finally plucked up the courage to write my disassociation letter.. adam.

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  NotFormer

  "My initial suspicions were raised when the music began to be changed in around 2009. It made me wonder if watchtower was trying to provoke more of an emotional response from followers because something else was amiss"

  Wow, that's pretty impressive! That you intuitively felt that their "fiddling with the settings" on peripheral aspects of the religion might be to divert attention away from something deeper. That's some sophisticated thinking right there!
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  15

  Watch Tower PA sues Russia in DC district over confiscation of Bethel

  by Corney in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  the watch tower society of pennsylvania filed a lawsuit on september 3, 2024, naming as defendants the russian federation, the russian ministry of health, and the almazov national medical research center.

  unfortunately, i can't access the case documents, including the complaint.

  i would appreciate if someone with an active pacer account could make them available.. anyway, it is enough to know the almazov center is one of the entities sued by the wts to say what this case is about.

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  NotFormer

  TonusOH, it might piss them off if it threatens financial assets held offshore that they were hoping to one day be able to use again. "Follow the money" works with high control nations as well as high control religions.
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  19

  Convention attendance

  by joe134cd in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  just heard from a pimi cousin who recently attended a convention, and remarked about the low attendance.

  peak was about 500. i remember that circuit, in years past, had attendances of 1000+.

  it's been over a decade now since i last attended a jw convention.

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  NotFormer

  I wonder if the day will come when only elders can be bothered turning up?

  It's fun to think about, but unlikely.