therealtonymorrisiii 's "alternative medicine cult" within jws actually made me laugh out loud. Jws are inherently anti medicine anyway because we were taught to reject "worldly" thinking and behaviour. Most jws simply are programmed to mindlessly obey, as are society in general. The majority of professionals who actually practice prescribing medicine are mostly clueless on how it will effect each of their patients. They may know some facts, but they are fallible, just like the Governing Body!
ukpimo
JoinedPosts by ukpimo
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JW Vaccine mandate: The contrast between voices of reason and confusion
by ukpimo ini was reading an intriguing post on the exjw reddit, a forum i do not with to sign up for, as i'm not interested in the internal politics of reddit.
https://www.reddit.com/r/exjw/comments/1hwlja8/the_governing_bodys_letter_that_shook_bethel_and/.
another post counteracted this one, driven by the "conspiracy theory" card.
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JW Vaccine mandate: The contrast between voices of reason and confusion
by ukpimo ini was reading an intriguing post on the exjw reddit, a forum i do not with to sign up for, as i'm not interested in the internal politics of reddit.
https://www.reddit.com/r/exjw/comments/1hwlja8/the_governing_bodys_letter_that_shook_bethel_and/.
another post counteracted this one, driven by the "conspiracy theory" card.
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ukpimo
Boogerman,
I fully agree!
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JW Vaccine mandate: The contrast between voices of reason and confusion
by ukpimo ini was reading an intriguing post on the exjw reddit, a forum i do not with to sign up for, as i'm not interested in the internal politics of reddit.
https://www.reddit.com/r/exjw/comments/1hwlja8/the_governing_bodys_letter_that_shook_bethel_and/.
another post counteracted this one, driven by the "conspiracy theory" card.
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ukpimo
I do believe that money was involved. There is no way to prove this specifically at this time, however the leak of the letter to full time servants is incriminating.
It's a shame that this letter along with the directive cannot be leaked to the press. The media is hugely politicised, which means that any of the main outlets would probably view this as a non story. Much corruption in government and religion has largely contributed to this stubborn attitude and closed minded nature people have against anything construed as a "conspiracy theory". This phrase has been overused beyond its dictionary definition to apply to anything that conflicts with popular beliefs. And we all know Jehovah’s Witnesses are a master of that with their own terminology!
In fact, no one dares question it, otherwise society will view you as an evil or an outcast! All these twisted, unsubstantiated false stories of "ill" unvaccinated children cause pro vaxxers to demonise anyone who is against the covid vaccine. The message? "How dare you!" Finger pointing techniques, logical fallacies and appealing to emotions rather than reason. You have to question everything to be an independent thinker. Even when something appears to be a fundamental truth, it could be so due to social pressures or culture. Never trust everything you believe to be true, it could change tomorrow. The average mortality rate and rate of infection from disease has largely remained unchanged for centuries with no vaccinations. The human race would have died out thousands of years ago if the quality of living was so bad and primitive compared to now. Politics are a human invention to control the masses. Humans were meant to breed and survive, not as primitives, but as intellectual people of free will, not bound by any culture, creed or tradition imposed upon them.
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JW Vaccine mandate: The contrast between voices of reason and confusion
by ukpimo ini was reading an intriguing post on the exjw reddit, a forum i do not with to sign up for, as i'm not interested in the internal politics of reddit.
https://www.reddit.com/r/exjw/comments/1hwlja8/the_governing_bodys_letter_that_shook_bethel_and/.
another post counteracted this one, driven by the "conspiracy theory" card.
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ukpimo
I was reading an intriguing post on the exjw reddit, a forum I do not with to sign up for, as I'm not interested in the internal politics of reddit.
https://www.reddit.com/r/exjw/comments/1hwlja8/the_governing_bodys_letter_that_shook_bethel_and/
Another post counteracted this one, driven by the "conspiracy theory" card. Yes, when you use the words conspiracy theory you can drive up confusion and support, much like the account at Acts 19:23-41, which will be discussed at meetings of Jehovah’s Witnesses this week:
https://www.reddit.com/r/exjw/comments/1hx5u1z/can_we_please_stop_the_vaccination_bullshit_on/
BT book this week:
When they recognized him as a Jew, they shouted him down, repeating the chant “Great is Artemis of the Ephesians!” for about two hours. Religious fanaticism has not changed since then. It still makes people completely unreasonable.—Acts 19:28-34.
Likewise, we could say that political fanaticism is the same. It makes people completely unreasonable. Of what benefit is it to someone to be reactive and impulsive to defend a belief, whilst using logical fallacies? It reveals they want to hide and defend an insecurity which they had. They are insecure that people have other viewpoints, perhaps more educated ones than others. The rebuttal post on reddit goes to explain that it is nothing more than an unreasonable and emotional reaction to a well educated post by someone who actually did their research. Long may these well written posts continue and may we always protest the evil that Watchtower placed upon its full time members and others who were on the bandwagon, the vaccine mandates during the pandemic were the biggest divisive mistake the Governing Body has ever made, even more so than failed predictions about when the end will come!
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Beliefs clarified - A big fat WTF for 2025
by ukpimo injehovah’s witnesses have an official page for clarified beliefs they encourage elders, ministerial servants, regular pioneers, as well as all the rest of the elite, to keep up to date with:.
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1200277174.
2025 has a curious clarification:.
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ukpimo
Jehovah’s Witnesses have an official page for clarified beliefs they encourage elders, ministerial servants, regular pioneers, as well as all the rest of the elite, to keep up to date with:
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1200277174
2025 has a curious clarification:
Marital Intimacies W25.01 13
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/pc/r1/lp-e/1200277174/247/0
The Bible does not provide details as to what sexual practices between a husband and a wife should be considered clean or unclean. A Christian couple must make decisions that reflect their resolve to honor Jehovah, to please each other, and to maintain a clean conscience. Generally speaking, a couple would not discuss with others this intimate aspect of their marriage.
This should be posted to other exjw forums, including Reddit.
This is very vague with a broad meaning, it could be implied that this encompasses many sexual acts that could have been viewed as "debased" by jws in the past. Any jw reading this "clarification" may now legitimately claim the Governing Body are allowing oral, anal, amongst other sexual acts previously frowned upon.
The 10 year plan or whatever plan they have about oral sex being acceptable has come true.. Thoughts?
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IICSA Final Report
by Phizzy inthe english legal system's independent inquiry into child sexual abuse has issued its final report, and its recommendations.
to read the report in full just google iicsa report, if you search on the iicsa site you can find the specific investigation into j.w's.. but this recommendation from the final report is interesting, esp.
the first and last sentences.
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ukpimo
https://bills.parliament.uk/bills/3743
Follow this link for updates. Ironically, the JW website now has a front page article -
Is protest the answer?
Protest can be a powerful force for change. But is it the solution to injustice, corruption, and oppression?
If this is Watchtower's attempt at guilt tripping loyal jws or exjws who are victims of child abuse who worked so hard to raise awareness of CSA and the need for mandatory reporting, they can well and truly piss off and I hope they enjoy the legal implications!
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Alteration of Revelation 3:14 in the 4th century to support the emerging Trinity doctrine
by slimboyfat inin an earlier thread another poster asserted that there is no evidence that revelation 3:14 played a part in the 4th controversy that led to the trinity doctrine.
this was claimed as evidence that the description of jesus as “the beginning of the creation of god” in the verse was not understood to mean that jesus was god’s first creation.
the scholarly greek–english lexicon of the new testament & other early christian literature 3e (2001) by bauer, arndt, gingrich, and danker, in its latest edition states that “first creation” is indeed the probable meaning of the greek phrase.
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ukpimo
It never made sense to me that God would simply create a human incarnation of himself to shed blood as a figurative sacrifice to pardon sin and save mankind. And better still, it doesn't make too much sense why he sent an "angel" to do the same thing. This legalistic approach viewed by Christians as some expression of love is very strange. Watchtower literature does in fact admit that Jehovah himself created death and he himself pronounced the death sentence on Adam and thus all of his descendants. Yet, to whom is the ransom price paid to? It isn't Satan! Watchtower would shudder if it suggested that! Actually, WT Publications show that the ransom price (to pay the one holding someone hostage) was actually paid to none other than Jehovah himself. So God got his oldest Son to do the dirty work for him, to make everything appear as if there was some kind of loving process to free mankind from sin, when in fact it was Jehovah who enslaved mankind in sin in the first place. Yeah, who would want to worship a God like that?
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Pre-Nicene christians and the trinity
by joey jojo inthis is just a quick summary that might be useful regarding the threads about the trinity currently on the board.. in 325 ce, the nicene council was called by constantine to settle schisms within the christian church.
the argument about the nature of jesus in relation to god was one of the big problems that needed resolution.
at first, constantine told the 2 main players, alexander and arius to sort it out between themselves, as he, constantine didnt see it as overly important.
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ukpimo
The very fact in the early times there were 2 sides in the debate, non trinitarian and those who leaned towards what would develop into the trinity doctrine, and that if you weren't allowed to express belief that Jesus was essentially God then you would be tortured, even killed, was testimony to the fact that Christians prior to this time did not equate Christ with God himself. However it seems apparent that if a Christian did express a viewpoint about the divinity of Christ contrary to the majority of non trinitarian Christians in the first century, he wasn't necessarily removed from the congregation. It was in fact Paul who identified them as "antichrists" and introduced a new concept to the church that such individuals were to be "marked", treated with caution. These Christians who had a different view regarding the divinity of Christ were still viewed as "brothers", but from Paul's point of view they were "false brothers", still not subject to "removal", unless they disagreed with one fundamental doctrine: the resurrection of Christ. This doctrine was the only one that had to be believed in every Christian church. The Trinity was not and never should have been a fundamental doctrine. It should have been allowed as an alternative viewpoint, subject to correction.
The fact that Trinitarian Christians demonise their members for having different viewpoints reveals that they are no better cults than Jehovah’s Witnesses. True Christianity encompasses all viewpoints on doctrine. Sad to say that all Christian religions, as well as other religions, are more concerned about money than anything else.
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What is Your Favorite WT Lie?
by Sea Breeze ini would like to start a thread on lies that the watchtower and their reps have told.
surely we all have one or two that truly sticks out in our memories, no matter how much we would like to forget.
my favorite wt lie: the reason they don't want to release the name of the "scholars" who worked on the new world translation is because they do not want to accept "glory and honor" from others.
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ukpimo
1975. And down to this day we see factions. Some elders say it wasn't pushed by the Organization, others say it was. Some say their congregation was always talking about it, others say theirs didn't mention it with as much zeal. Despite this, assemblies and conventions in the lead up to 1975 strongly suggested 1975 was a significant year and even during these programs the Society praised witnesses who retired early to pioneer and sold their homes to eventually end up still pioneering and in this same old system nearly 50 years later!
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Is it just me, or is Watchtower lowering its standards?
by ukpimo inin the past, we used to hear talks on:.
avoiding sexual immorality and porn, as well as masturbation and other sexual practices.
why evolution cannot possibly be true.
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ukpimo
In the past, we used to hear talks on:
Avoiding sexual immorality and porn, as well as masturbation and other sexual practices
Why evolution cannot possibly be true
How Watchtower's teachings are pure and why one should reject "Babylon the Great"
How close we are to the end of this system
How not participating in the preaching work at least once a week will incur blood guilt, and why it was non negotiable
And remember when Watchtower used to criticise other religions for "tickling the ears" of their members by focusing on love and Christian works and not on the most important work of all for Watchtower, its evangelical recruitment work?
Nowadays, although elements of these negative subjects are still apparent at meetings, such subjects are now overshadowed by a new way of presenting their cult.
More often, we now hear these messages:
Love your brothers, forgive them regardless of whatever happened to you
Remaining united is more important than making sure you are doing everything right
Develop Christian qualities constantly and remember that you can never perfectly show them to others (in other words, you will fail, but chill out because this is what we expect from you)
Obey every direction from the Governing Body, even if it appears strange from a human standpoint (do as you're told or we'll "remove" you for apostasy)
Loyally support Christ's brothers by volunteering any time you have and we thank you so much for your voluntary donations (wink, wink, nudge)
Show love people who aren't Witnesses and advertise our website freely, with the intention of recruitment of course, perhaps you may be able to trick them into taking an Interactive Bible Course in our own very covert way!
Beards are now okay, any size is fine as long as it doesn't "stumble" any, unless you're a Bethelite of course who appear to grow beards which look so vile they look like they are stuck on the face (shaved so close) rather than growing out like a naturally normal beard.
No ties for men, which was a long time coming. Although I see no point in whether a man chose to wear a tie or not, you should dress as you please. No one should judge you for dressing up if you want.
Slacks for women at meetings and even assemblies and conventions are now okay. The staple of a sister's youth in the past was to buy an attractive new dress every day of the convention for the year, the lowering of standards is disgraceful and takes away the excitement for women who love to shop, now they can just throw on a jumper and slacks, that will do!
Disfellowshipping ("removal") is now made to seem "softer" with the approach of reinstating a removed individual a few months after the announcement. Pathetic. What is the point of making an announcement and avoiding someone socially for 3 or 4 months? I can choose to avoid contacting my daughter for that long and her reaction would be like "what the hell was the point of that dad?"
And just ticking a box for congregation publishers? Watchtower has made the ministry (mainly letter writing or bible studies with children) dead easy. Anyone can do it. No real effort is required. Just come out at least once a month for nearly an hour, even half an hour, and you've done the Lord's work. If you are an elder, ministerial servant, or other publisher who may be a PIMO, what is the point? Just exit now while you have the chance.
What next? I cannot see Watchtower making any more significant changes for some time. However I do have a very strange feeling that next month, on the 1 year anniversary of the "beard announcement" Governing Body update we will probably receive some "news". I don't know if my instincts are correct, it will be interesting to observe what transpires in this Organization.