Posts by stevieb1

It only seems a short while ago when we were congratulating this board on achieving it's 3000th member. Now it seems were are closing in on the 5000 mark. If we spread the word we could reach 7000 members by next year I'm sure!!

10

Latest Magazines Online?

by stevieb1 in

jw
friends

does anyone know if any site hosts the latest issue of the watchtower and awake online?

i heard a rumour that this was true.

stevieb1

Does anyone know if any site hosts the latest issue of The Watchtower and Awake online? I heard a rumour that this was true.

9

Gentile Times Reconsidered - Revised ed.

by stevieb1 in

jw
friends

i was checking on amazon.com the other day and i noticed that there was a revised edition of co jonsson's book "the gentile times reconsidered".

i have the 1986 edition which is 228 pages long, but i've heard that the new edition is 360 pages long.

can anyone who has this new edition enlighten me as to what new information is i this superb publication?

stevieb1

I was checking on Amazon.com the other day and I noticed that there was a revised edition of CO Jonsson's book "The Gentile Times Reconsidered". I have the 1986 edition which is 228 pages long, but I've heard that the new edition is 360 pages long. Can anyone who has this new edition enlighten me as to what new information is i this superb publication?

2

"You Must Believe As We Do" - JW Elder

by stevieb1 in

dear all.

i am currently having visits made on me by the elders,who are trying to help me "unbelieve" the things i have learned to be true from the bible, which naturally contradict wt doctrine.. as well as asking me "where else will you go" they said that members of the public walking into a kingdom hall expect all within it to be jehovah's witnesses holding firmly to their doctrines and not holding divergent viewpoints like i do.

they said it would not be proper for someone to hold a belief that was contrary to the society and still be expected to remain a jw, even in name only.

stevieb1

Dear all

I am currently having visits made on me by the elders,who are trying to help me "unbelieve" the things I have learned to be true from the Bible, which naturally contradict WT doctrine.
As well as asking me "where else will you go" they said that members of the public walking into a Kingdom Hall expect all within it to be Jehovah's Witnesses holding firmly to their doctrines and not holding divergent viewpoints like I do. They said it would not be proper for someone to hold a belief that was contrary to the Society and still be expected to remain a JW, even in name only.

I have stated to them that I can no longer preach the WT version of the "good news" so they automatically assumed that I am not obeying Jesus' command to preach.

I am in a bit of a predicament as you can see. They also assumed that I cannot say "Amen" to a prayer from the platform that might mention "Jehovah's organization" or "slave class" and such-like. Even some of the songs I find that I cannot conscientiously sing.

On the plus side I have given some of the elders photocopies of portions of Ray Franz's books, so can I ask that your prayers are with them that they too can see Bible truths that I have come across?

17

"You Are Expected to Believe As We Do&quot...

by stevieb1 in

jw
friends

i am currently having visits made on me by the elders,who are trying to help me "unbelieve" the things i have learned to be true from the bible, which naturally contradict wt doctrine.. as well as asking me "where else will you go" they said that members of the public walking into a kingdom hall expect all within it to be jehovah's witnesses holding firmly to their doctrines and not holding divergent viewpoints like i do.

they said it would not be proper for someone to hold a belief that was contrary to the society and still be expected to remain a jw, even in name only.

i have stated to them that i can no longer preach the wt version of the "good news" so they automatically assumed that i am not obeying jesus' command to preach.. i am in a bit of a predicament as you can see.

stevieb1

I am currently having visits made on me by the elders,who are trying to help me "unbelieve" the things I have learned to be true from the Bible, which naturally contradict WT doctrine.

As well as asking me "where else will you go" they said that members of the public walking into a Kingdom Hall expect all within it to be Jehovah's Witnesses holding firmly to their doctrines and not holding divergent viewpoints like I do. They said it would not be proper for someone to hold a belief that was contrary to the Society and still be expected to remain a JW, even in name only.

I have stated to them that I can no longer preach the WT version of the "good news" so they automatically assumed that I am not obeying Jesus' command to preach.

I am in a bit of a predicament as you can see. They also assumed that I cannot say "Amen" to a prayer from the platform that might mention "Jehovah's organization" or "slave class" and such-like. Even some of the songs I find that I cannot conscientiously sing.

On the plus side I have given some of the elders photocopies of portions of Ray Franz's books, so can I ask that your prayers are with them that they too can see Bible truths that I have come across?

50

Greg Stafford's New Book Has Shipped

by AlanF in

jw
friends

today i received greg stafford's new book three dissertations on the teachings of jehovah's witnesses.

for those who don't know, stafford has been a staunch defender of the watchtower society's teachings for at least six years, on the net and in print.

his previous book, jehovah's witnesses defended (1998, 2000), is a milestone in pro-jw literature.. the new book is a radical departure from stafford's previous book in that he strongly questions the society's doctrines about blood transfusions, the basis for the claim of spiritual authority by jw leaders, the necessity for christians to believe the society's 1914 doctrine, and issues of "legalism" including the propriety of requiring "time" in the field ministry to be reported, and even the supposed scriptural basis for the society's ban on celebrating birthdays and christmas.

stevieb1

It is quite interesting to read that Stafford's new book seems to challenge some of the Society's tenets. I was under the impression that it was defending the Society on some points, such as the faithful and discreet slave. If he is criticizing the Society then why is Elihu Books (pro-witness publishers) distributing his material? Does anyone know who owns Elihu Books?

It seems that when individuals "grow a brain" within Jehovah's Witnesses and analyze some of the Watchtower's doctrines from a scholarly viewpoint they come to divergent conclusions and soon leave the Watchtower or ceremonially get disfellowshipped. Two persons come to mind- Jay Hess who published a book called Jehovah's Witnesses Are Not False Prophets and even wrote articles for The Watchtower magazine. He later retracted what he had said in the aforementioned work and now believes the organization to be a false prophet. He is now a Christian. Secondly, we have James Penton, a recognized scholar even as a Witness. He first wrote a massive book called 'Jehovah's Witnesses in Canada' and defended the Society before the media on several ocassions. He too left the organization when he found their doctrines to be false. So could this be the case with Greg Stafford. And who knows of Rolf Furuli's current standing with the organization and that of another defender of the Watchtower by te name of atthew Alfs who a number of years wrote a book called The Evocative Religion of Jehovah's Witnesses?

4

"Look at the Fruits" Says the Watchtower

by stevieb1 in

we know how much in the way of doctrine is scripturally deficient in the watchtower organization, but they will always come back and say something on the following lines:.

* look at the fruit of our works.

millions are coming to an accurate knowledge about jehovah who would never get to know him where it not for our preaching activities carried out worldwide.

stevieb1

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
We know how much in the way of doctrine is Scripturally deficient in the WatchTower organization, but they will always come back and say something on the following lines:
* Look at the fruit of our works. Millions are coming to an accurate knowledge about Jehovah who would never get to know Him where it not for our preaching activities carried out worldwide. Which other organization does this on such a large scale? Yes some doctrines may be inaccurate, and we "wait on Jehovah" to clarify these matters, but just look at the fruitage - surely this indicates Jehovah's blessing on his organization.

* We are the only people who truly love one another no matter where we are from. Other religionists kill one another, but we would never do that. Surely this indicates that we have the truth.

* We are the only ones that stress the importance of God's Name

* Who else is preaching the good news of God's Kingdom - only Jehovah's Witnesses.

When I have voiced disagreements on matters such as the 144,000/great crowd or the 607BCE issue, JW's generally discard these things as minor matters in comparison to some of the above. Sometimes they seem so convinced that I almost find myself believing they do have the truth and they do have God's blessing. Some of the above are quite hard to refute. Has anyone else had a similar issue with the above? How have you responded when an elder or another Witness brings these things up?

8

"Look at the Fruits" Says the Watchtower

by stevieb1 in

jw
friends

we know how much in the way of doctrine is scripturally deficient in the watchtower organization, but they will always come back and say something on the following lines:.

* look at the fruit of our works.

millions are coming to an accurate knowledge about jehovah who would never get to know him where it not for our preaching activities carried out worldwide.

stevieb1

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
We know how much in the way of doctrine is Scripturally deficient in the WatchTower organization, but they will always come back and say something on the following lines:
* Look at the fruit of our works. Millions are coming to an accurate knowledge about Jehovah who would never get to know Him where it not for our preaching activities carried out worldwide. Which other organization does this on such a large scale? Yes some doctrines may be inaccurate, and we "wait on Jehovah" to clarify these matters, but just look at the fruitage - surely this indicates Jehovah's blessing on his organization.

* We are the only people who truly love one another no matter where we are from. Other religionists kill one another, but we would never do that. Doctrine aside, look at what Jehovah's spirit is accomplishing in the organization today."

* Who else is preaching the good news of God's Kingdom - only Jehovah's Witnesses.

When I have voiced disagreements on matters such as the 144,000/great crowd or the 607BCE issue, JW's generally discard these things as minor matters in comparison to some of the above. Sometimes they seem so convinced that I almost find myself believing they do have the truth and they do have God's blessing. Some of the above are quite hard to refute. Has anyone else had a similar issue with the above? How have you responded when an elder or another Witness brings these things up?

5

IsThe "Slave Class" Biblical?

by stevieb1 in

i'm currently involved in an in-depth study of the wt society's doctrine of the "faithful and discreet slave" of matthew 24:45-47 and hope to present my research to an inquiring jw elder.

i am trying to counter some of the claims made in the following reference:- insight on the scriptures vol 1, pp.

805-806. here is a quote from p.806 which adequately describes the society's understanding of the "slave class" .

stevieb1

I'm currently involved in an in-depth study of the WT Society's doctrine of the "faithful and discreet slave" of Matthew 24:45-47 and hope to present my research to an inquiring JW elder. I am trying to counter some of the claims made in the following reference:- Insight On The Scriptures Vol 1, pp. 805-806. Here is a quote from p.806 which adequately describes the Society's understanding of the "slave class"
QUOTE:

Commentators often view this as a general exhortation to any and all who have individual positions of responsibility in the Christian congregation. The requirement of faithfulness in discharging responsibility clearly applies to all such. (Compare Mt 25:14-30; Tit 1:7-9.) Yet, the impossibility of each and every one of these individuals being placed over "all" his master's belongings at the same time, the time of the master's arrival, is obvious. This, however, does not require that the "slave" prefigure only one particular person who would be so privileged. The Scriptures contain examples of the use of a singular noun to refer to a collective group, as when Jehovah addressed the collective group of the Israelite nation and told them: "You are my witnesses [plural], . . . even my servant [singular] whom I have chosen." (Isa 43:10) Similarly, the figure of the unfaithful "evil slave" could apply to a collective group in the same way that "the antichrist" is shown to be a class made up of individual antichrists.--1Jo 2:18; 2Jo 7.

Those forming the Christian congregation are referred to by the apostle Paul as "members of the household of God" (Eph 2:19; 1Ti 3:15), and the same apostle shows that 'faithful stewardship' among such household members involved the dispensing of spiritual truths on which those becoming believers would 'feed.' (1Co 3:2, 5; 4:1, 2; compare Mt 4:4.) Whereas this was a prime responsibility of those appointed as 'shepherds' of the flock (1Pe 5:1-3), the apostle Peter shows that such stewardship of the divine truths was actually committed to all the 'chosen ones,' all the spirit-anointed ones, of the Christian congregation. (1Pe 1:1, 2; 4:10, 11) Thus the entire anointed Christian congregation was to serve in a united stewardship, dispensing such truths. At the same time the individual members making up such composite body, or the "domestics" making up the "house" of God (Mt 24:45; Heb 3:6; Eph 2:19), would also be recipients of the "food" dispensed. (Heb 5:11-14; compare 1Co 12:12, 19-27.) Expanded responsibility would result from faithfulness maintained until the master's promised 'arrival.'--Mt 24:46,47; Lu 12:43, 44

END QUOTE

love to read your comments.