Posts by Frank75

37

Ex-Elders Outnumber Elders In My KH; what does that suggest to you?

by Room 215 in

jw
friends

right now, the number of ex- elders (either resigned, pushed out or df'd) outnumber the present elders; what does this suggest to you?

.

Frank75

Blondie - If you think the elders are unkind to the rank and file, they are even more so to so-called fellow elders. They're like creatures that eat their own young.

So true. One of the last things I did as an active witness was write a letter to the new CO in regards to a witch hunt in progress of a man who I didn't even particularly like (my FIL). This is what I wrote to him:

We often hear about the need to respect authority in the congregation, when many of those taking the lead battle one another over positions, seek to outdo each other, and give evidence time and again that they lack respect for one another? Not to mention those whom they are appointed to serve.

I was always positive about the JW religion but as that letter slipped out of my hand into the mailbox I was starting to see that this religion was a lost cause.

In keepoing with the threads question there is a multitude of reasons why this situation exists as can be seen by the posts and expressions of people who held this "title" in the dubs. I tend to lean towards their exhaustion in general. It takes a lot of energy, you are constantly being judged by everyone and in the end it is easier to throw up your hands.

It is bizarre to think that if such a person is a requirement in the Christian community (I believe a stronger argument exists that it simply refers to someone of experience with no power at all), that once a person has become a person seen as an older man, that they would never stop being such a person unless they left the community.

Frank75

22

A few questions concerning Jehovah's Witnesses doctrines

by garyneal in

for those familiar with my postings already know, i am a christian who is married to an active jehovah's witness (though not yet baptized).

we discuss issues concerning the witnesses and their doctrines and have had "bible studies" with one of the elders.

i've asked her about some of these things and i would like to share her responses and see if it lines up with watchtower teachings.. can a police officer become a jehovah's witness?.

Frank75

JW's have a good thing going with their view on Military involvement, who wants to argue with a pacifist? Many people naively believe that world problems would be solved if armies were suspended. But the personal conflict and strife amongst JW's is proof that disarming is not the solution to end violence and conflict. Ending religion is a more practical solution IMHO.

A good comeback to your wife is two fold. first is Jesus words in Matt 5

(Matthew 5:41) . . .and if someone under authority impresses you into service for a mile, go with him two miles. . .

The implication is very often lost on the JW who scans over this. However the NWT cross reference takes you to the impressing into service of Simon to carry the cross for Jesus by a MILITARY officer. The cross-reference only underpins the subject. The wording is still hard to get around as there is no room left for a follower of Jesus to resist the order from someone in superior authority, whatever that order was.

What could be worse than carrying an impalement cross, the instrument used to murder criminals and in this case an innocent man.

Likewise there is a passage in Luke where soldiers who came to John to be baptized asked specifically "what more must we do" to get right with God. What a great place to tell them to leave the military but John gives them advice on how to better conduct themselves AS SOLDIERS.

Lastly the greatest blow to JW "live by the sword, die by the sword" theology is that before his death, Jesus reversed what he said earlier about carrying a sword (gun). Although he said the above "live by" words after Peter used the sword that Jesus told him to carry, it was its use, or living by it" and not carrying it that was the problem. To say that Police officers and military personnel "Live" by their weapons is a crude misrepresentation of what their function is. Before there was Police, it was the Army that maintained civil order.

The text is here:

(Luke 22:35-36) 35 He also said to them: "When I sent YOU forth without purse and food pouch and sandals, YOU did not want for anything, did YOU?" They said: "No!" 36 Then he said to them: "But now let the one that has a purse take it up, likewise also a food pouch; and let the one having no sword sell his outer garment and buy one.

Frank75

19

Recent Belgium TV expose' about JWs on YouTube. Need a French translator to tell us basically what was said

by AndersonsInfo in

jw
friends

voici (enfin...) sur you tube le reportage le monde parfait de jehovah (diffuse par la television belge rtbf (la une) devoir d'enquete le 23/09/2009).

pour se conformer au format exige par yt, c'est decoupe en 7 parties d'une duree de +/- 10 min.

le monde parfait de jehovah (partie 1#7) 9:42. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bc41ieqjveo.

Frank75

My french is rusty but this series is explosive. I hope some good translation can be done so everyone can understand what these journalists have exposed about the Tesmoines de Jehovah!

Bravo!

Frank75

16

Rumor: JWs in Canada paid for new recruits???

by Saoirse in

jw
friends

for the 2nd time this week, when i mentioned to someone that i am a former jw, i was asked if jws were paid for each new recruit.

one girl told me that she heard that jws were paid $1200 for each new convert.

.

Frank75

$1200!!!

It probably costs 1000X that much just to make a convert.

Yeah people who have never been in should leave the maligning to us....

Frank75

74

I'm Still Torn About the Blood Issue

by palmtree67 in

when i left the org.

the blood issue wasn't an issue for me.

my best friend was on the blood committee for years and i could see many cases where either blood wouldn't have saved the person anyways (like when a person is in a serious car accident and their liver is in pieces), or blood actually killed the person and/or hindered recovery.. then my little nephew got leukemia.

Frank75

WTL

We were told the same too. It wasn't my parents idea but my dad told me that it was mentioned in an assembly part.

It is hard to reconcile that orthodox mentality of the 60's and 70's with the modern position. As a youth I can recall having difficulty with Hemophiliac exemption as well as the Hep C vaccine which originally required infected donated blood.

Scully's point is spot on as well. It takes massive amounts of donor blood to produce the fractions for JW's. But they are not permitted to donate? That is sick.

Which reminds me of another inconsistency is that White blood cells are still taboo even in small quantities, but yet Liver transplants are ok even though the liver itself carries a large quantity of white blood cells into its new host, a sort of transfusion byproduct of a transplant.

So X-Dubs who are still caught up in this nonsense are the equivalent of 1st Century Jews who became Xtians but still limited themselves to walking less than 1200 cubits on Sabbath...what the heck is a cubit in metric?

Frank75

74

I'm Still Torn About the Blood Issue

by palmtree67 in

when i left the org.

the blood issue wasn't an issue for me.

my best friend was on the blood committee for years and i could see many cases where either blood wouldn't have saved the person anyways (like when a person is in a serious car accident and their liver is in pieces), or blood actually killed the person and/or hindered recovery.. then my little nephew got leukemia.

Frank75

I still shake my head when I hear todays JW's talk about blood as "fractions" and as "whole blood".

Blood is blood and if JW's truly abstained from blood they wouldn't even suck their finger if it got pricked. The reasoning used to allow JW's to partake of components derived from the blood trade through donations which are still taboo for the JW, has been proved time and again to be filled wth holes. Allbeit self serving ones as the Society attempts to take the religion main stream.

A personal friend of mine (not a JW) was an employee at the company that invented or marketed fluosol which was hailed by the society back in the early 80's as the be-all. The arguments that "all the body needs is oxygen" were never accurate according to him. In its demise, he told me that they all knew that the body in certain situations just needs blood....period.

Read Franz's essay in Christian Freedom, it is an eye opener.

Like the Jews who swore by the gold on the temple, and Jesus asked which is greater the gold or the temple.(I would take the gold)

Blood is supposed to be a representation of life, not to be valued above life.

Frank75

57

I'm new, let me introduce myself

by no lies please in

jw
friends

i've been lurking here for many months.

i served as an elder for many years, and regular pioneer for much longer until recently.

i'm also a mts grad and was used extensively on the circuit and district level.

Frank75

Embrace your family("worldly"), I have found them to be quite forgiving. Good luck.

I would like to welcome you too and ditto the above comments. My JW parents and JW relies villified the non JW's but although far from perfect,they are for the most part straightforward and functional.

Enjoy the journey, there is a happy ending.

Frank75

51

Everything About Being An Elder is Weird (my misc rambling memories of being an elder)

by AllTimeJeff in

for any brother who is a jehovah's witness, the goal is put before them to reach out for the privilege of being an elder.

i can only speak for myself, but being born into the religion, i wanted to be an elder since i was 5. i would have much rather wanted to be a doctor or engineer, but those are the breaks..... i'll skip the part about what it takes to reach out, all the crap you have to put up with as a ministerial servant to get appointed, and go straight to the reality.. i know many elders who sincerely just wanted to be shepherds.

i did want the spotlight.

Frank75

Great post ATJ

I was never an elder myself, but spent 11 years in the netherworld of MS. I was too much of a thorn in the elders sides to ever get appointed. Suited me fine. They eventually removed me after a sister committed suicide and I pointed the finger at the lack of interest in "the sheep" by the body. She was not well and if they showed some interest it may not have worked out anybetter, but we could have all felt that an effort was made.

So people with a similar experience shouldn't feel bad, we all did stupid things because of our lack of experience/training. Realize that the society like most high control groups seeks young men because they are easier to manipulate and control. Suggest something to an old dog and he will make you spell it out and analyze it against his experience. Suggest the same to a younger man and he will likely run with it.

I honestly can't imagine that there are many elders who actually think holy spirit is guiding them, at least at the local level.

I think that most elders eventually see that it is really every man for himself and there is no one upstairs directing things (arguably the guy upstairs is the one with the horns when it comes to WT) and that is what makes it so bad in most bodies and by extension congregations. Once these guys lose their faith/belief in god or just the belief in what they are doing, all that gives them pleasure is their power and using and abusing it.

My BIL was a dark elder character with lots of childhood and youthful indiscretions in the closet. A dfing machine if you ever saw one. The only time you saw him happy was at meetings where he announced someone was being df'd. He would literally skip to the platform. If I got to the meeting and saw him in a good mood, I would tell people someone was being df'd.

My 2 cents

Frank75

210

If The Bible Is The Word Of God...

by XJW4EVR in

jw
friends

many here have abandoned the bible as "the word of god" and there are numerous reasons for said abandonment.

however what i am interested in finding out is if the bible is the word of god, then what would you expect to find?.

Frank75

Never was, is or will be an angel.

All the best,

Stephen

I was looking for "Spike's" answer and scriptural insight.....

I don't believe there is any proof that Paul knew Jesus as an angel, spirit or flesh. In fact at the time of Paul's blinding the account in Acts although of a supernatural event, appears that the experience may have left Paul (ie his later words cited above) with a distinct impression that it was a "man" Jesus because Acts mentions that those with him heard the voice "but not beholding any man"

Anyway, I don't expect to hear anything different from a dub. Even a df'd one clamoring to get back in. They are programmed to speak what they are told. If tomorrow the Watchtower changed its position on Jesus resurrection Spikey would spout that as the way it is.

I also think Dubs who generally avoid the visitation to Abraham like the plague are disingenuous when using it to support their view of who or what those angels were.

Frank75

210

If The Bible Is The Word Of God...

by XJW4EVR in

jw
friends

many here have abandoned the bible as "the word of god" and there are numerous reasons for said abandonment.

however what i am interested in finding out is if the bible is the word of god, then what would you expect to find?.

Frank75

to IA:— I have faith that the WTS is a rep of both Jehovah God and His Son Jesus Christ, even though you obviously no longer claim such (according to your current statements on JWN at least).

(Psalm 146:3) 3 Do not put YOUR trust in nobles, Nor in the son of earthling man, to whom no salvation belongs. . .

Spike, your faith is misplaced if I can be bold. The Watchtower wants and yes needs you to have faith in it. but if you sincerely wish to follow the bible you must investigate its claims and activity over its history. Try to avoid their own sanitized version of things.

w79 3/1p.12 Faith in Jehovah’s Victorious Organization

Read Matt 24 again and warnings there as well as Luke 21:8

Christ = Anointed one

The Christ = The Anointed

The Watchtower leadership claim to be the modern day Christ, like it or not.

As does "Estephan, Steven, Son of Man" or whatever incarnation he is this week.

Frank75

Really?