by ajie 221 Replies latest watchtower bible
Gumby
.....but how did the rest of the world see god exalt jesus?
Not sure what you're driving at, so let me ask you, How did you find out?
Tell me I'm on drugs
Looks like we both know the answer to that
I think you should come over and smoke one with me and straighten this stuff out once and for allD Dog
Joseph, I am done arguing with you. But feel free to argue against Paul:
1 Corinthians 15:42-57
Here are some highlights:
"It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body."
"As [is] the earthy, such [are] they also that are earthy: and as [is] the heavenly, such [are] they also that are heavenly."
"Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption."
As you pointed out to LittleToe, Paul has the advantage over you, Joseph. He knows the nature of immortal creatures. Wasn't it nice that he didn't leave us guessing?
AuldSoul
"It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body." AuldSoul, And just what is this spiritual body? One provided by God, immortal yet human not the mortal one we received from Adam. Are you following what Paul is saying? Are you paying attention to Paul’s argument? The body provided is dependent upon the seed that was planted and in our case that seed is human. The same goes anyone that gains entry into the Kingdom of God. No one can simple live through Armageddon and walk in. We must be changed or we die and will not gain entry. "As [is] the earthy, such [are] they also that are earthy: and as [is] the heavenly, such [are] they also that are heavenly." "Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption." Only immortal human beings will enter. The texts do not say spiritual Beings. The word spiritual is not limited to spiritual beings by any means. That is where you fail. You assume something not under discussion. The texts do not say this spiritual body will not be human either. Our Lord was raised as a human as shown in this thread. No this body will not be flesh and blood which Paul uses to contrast mortality with immortality but it will be human. It works like this: 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. N o longer do we see spiritual, that elusive word you like so well. The mortal body was human and the immortality will be human as well. 54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. Justification and immortal human life is what Paul is talking about here. The very thing our Lord promised and demonstrated to the world. The only thing the human seed that was sown can become. Joseph
JosephMalik, I would like to see your explanation of:
2 Corinthians 12:2 I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago (whether in the body or out of the body I do not know, God knows) was caught up to the third heaven. 12:3 And I know that this man (whether in the body or apart from the body I do not know, God knows) 12:4 was caught up into paradise
I noticed that while it does say "spiritual" body, it does not say "human" body.
When Paul says "flesh and blood" he is contrasting a natural body with a spiritual body. He doesn't discuss a difference between a mortal v. immortal body except in context with discussing a natural v. spiritual body.
Again I turn to Thayer's. It can help you understand the meaning of the Greek words translated "flesh" and "blood," although I am starting to believe you don't care what the words mean, you'll just make up whatever meaning suits your fancy.
Hellrider,
I did that already here on JWD. Look it up yourself.
Joseph
Does anyone know if Russell was a freemason or not?
Gumby
Well, a few people did who were slated for salvation some 70 years ago. But they're all dead now.
I have to get a bumper sticker that reads, "Billions who were 'now living' have died—there aren't 'Millions' left"
AuldSoul
AuldSoul,
The discussion is about the resurrection which such Jews already understood to be human life. Did not Martha confess this to our Lord as well? This was so well ingrained in such Jews that Paul did not need to say human body. Now among the Gentiles there were all sorts of theories. That is why Paul reduced the problem from the many theories offered in their letter to the seed that was planted. Thayers will not help you with the high level language Paul is useing here. Being Jewish would help you more as they used such words differently than we do today. Adam's body from which we were derived is depicted as mortal, corruption, flesh and blood, dying. The human body our Lord will provide will not be the product of Adam but a product of God, spiritual, incorruption, immortal, undying. It is that simple. Paul is arguing with them over their many corrupt doctrines and practices and correcting them point by point just as he does in nearly all of 1Cor.
Joseph
[psst! Joseph! Corinthians weren't Jews...you might want to retract that inference before you embarrass yourself further.]
