Luke 23:43 the NWT

by Ade 89 Replies latest watchtower bible

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    @aqwsed12345...


    That website you linked quotes Ignatius. Ignatius was full of baloney, just like the GB/FDS.


    (Where do you think they got that "Faithful Discreet Slave" false doctrine from?)


    Here is a quote from the Epistle of Ignatius to the Ephesians, chapter 6:


    "Now the more any one sees the bishop keeping silence, the more he ought to revere him. For we ought to receive every one whom the Master of the house sends to be over His household, Matthew 24:45 as we would do Him that sent him. It is manifest, therefore, that we should look upon the bishop even as we would upon the Lord Himself."


    I will spare you the bunk from the rest of Ignatius, but you can read it for yourself. It doesn't take much to realize he was pulling the stuff out of his, um...


    Anyone who relies on Ignatius for scriptural understanding is not relying on holy spirit but is making stuff up in order to attempt to look "smart" and get glory from men, just like "Ignatius" made stuff up in order to lord it over the Lord's sheep. Jesus said to beware the leaven of the scribes and Pharisees. Ignatius is full of leaven. The GB/FDS is full of leaven. These people who want to make their own websites and get followers (and donations) for themselves are full of leaven.


    Jesus said regarding the truth: "You received free, give free." The websites you linked have a photo of a little girl holding out cash and a caption that says: "How to financially support us." The name of the "company" is "Witnesses for Jesus." If the website owner was a true witness for Jesus, then the website owner would not be quoting Ignatius, a teacher of false doctrine.

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    @aqwsed12345


    Here is an excerpt from the other website you linked:


    "Now for the main point of this article. We also know that women are to blame...America is composed of some 330 million people. Yes, millions of them are in America illegally (and we don’t think that this can be easily worked out), and it would take perhaps 30 or more million to truly repent and go back to their countries, the places where they came from...


    "We know that this is a guess, but it is an “educated guess,” that 95% or more of them really repudiate the idea of Biblical positions. In other words, they probably don’t know that a woman, under God and His authority...is to be silent in the assembly and in public (1 Corinthians 14:33-37), is not to work away from the home (1 Timothy 5:14; Titus 2:4-5)...And, of course, we admit that most women, even “religious” woman, care little about God’s will in this matter...This is what God wants and it must be what we want as well!"


    Hmm. Well, since it's Jesus who pours out the holy spirit on "all sorts of flesh" including female flesh, and since Jesus told even females to bear witness to the truth - (for example, of the disciples, wasn't it Mary Magdalene and other women who Jesus first spoke to after he was resurrected and then he trusted those women to tell the men?) - why would you quote a website author who obviously is misunderstanding some basic scriptural teachings regarding bearing witness and women? "Silent in public?" Seriously? Sounds antichrist to me.


    "Jehovah gives the command;

    The women proclaiming the good news are a large army." (Psalm 68:11)


    This thread is about Luke 23:43. What happened later in the book of Luke?


    Luke 23:55,56


    "But the women who had come with him from Galʹi·lee followed along and took a look at the tomb and saw how his body was laid, and they went back to prepare spices and perfumed oils. But, of course, they rested on the Sabbath according to the commandment."


    Luke 24:1-11


    "But on the first day of the week, they came very early to the tomb, bringing the spices they had prepared. But they found the stone rolled away from the tomb, and when they entered, they did not find the body of the Lord Jesus. While they were perplexed about this, look! two men in shining garments stood by them. The women became frightened and kept their faces turned toward the ground, so the men said to them: “Why are you looking for the living one among the dead? He is not here, but has been raised up. Recall how he spoke to you while he was yet in Galʹi·lee, saying that the Son of man must be handed over to sinful men and be executed on the stake and on the third day rise.” Then they remembered his words, and they returned from the tomb and reported all these things to the Eleven and to all the rest. They were Mary Magʹda·lene, Jo·anʹna, and Mary the mother of James. Also, the rest of the women with them were telling these things to the apostles. However, these sayings seemed like nonsense to them, and they would not believe the women."


    This isn't the first time Jesus has used women to tell the good news. Just like some people in the first century didn't want to believe the women Jesus sent, so it is the same today.


    "God is not partial."


    I am no "prophet" or "visionary" in the sense of the word used in the scriptures, but even I can see that, through Jesus, Jehovah is pouring out holy spirit on anyone He wants to, even the lowliest despised ones, that the praise and glory may go to God.


    "And in the last days,” God says, “I will pour out some of my spirit on every sort of flesh, and your sons and your daughters will prophesy and your young men will see visions and your old men will dream dreams, and even on my male slaves and on my female slaves I will pour out some of my spirit in those days, and they will prophesy."

    The scriptures and the holy spirit make clear that when Jesus said, "Truly I tell you today, you will be with me in Paradise," he was talking about a time in the future that he will walk on the earth and hang out with people.

    "Amen! Come, Lord Jesus!"

  • aqwsed12345
    aqwsed12345

    Instead of focusing on who they are, what they do anyway, and therefore making "ad hominem" arguments, why don't you focus on the content of the article I sent you?

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    "Ad hominem(Attacking the person): This fallacy occurs when, instead of addressing someone's argument or position, you irrelevantly attack the person or some aspect of the person who is making the argument." (txst.edu)


    The points I brought out about were not "irrelevant". They were pertinent. I read pages from the websites you linked and I commented on them in depth with quotes to show that their substance and reasoning is flawed and unscriptural.


    For me to say that the writers were pulling their interpretations out of a dark place wasn't an "ad hominem attack". It was truth. Jesus called out the Pharisees as serpents, offspring of their Father the Devil. He wasn't doing an "ad hominem attack". He was telling the truth about those religious fakers who pretended to be something they were not: friends of God. Those fakers were not God's friends, and they weren't our friends either.


    "...if your eye is envious, your whole body will be dark. If the light that is in you is really darkness, how great that darkness is! No one can slave for two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will stick to the one and despise the other. You cannot slave for God and for Riches."


    One of your website authors is looking for money rather than glory for God.


    "...a man is declared righteous, not by works of law, but only through faith in Jesus Christ. So we have put our faith in Christ Jesus, so that we may be declared righteous by faith in Christ and not by works of law, for no one will be declared righteous by works of law."


    The other website author you posted is seeking to make rules to enslave the sheep and harshly lord it over the flock.


    Neither of those website authors has the mind of Christ. Since they don't have the mind of Christ and they don't have the holy spirit, they do not know how to interpret that verse correctly, just like the rest of the verses discussed in your other Robert Bowman and Brian Onken article there.


    Those guys Bowman and Onken are making stuff up so people will look at their names. They don't know what they're talking about. They just talk and talk and talk and it's all just made up. You would do better if you just read the Bible yourself and asked God to help you.


    Why do you want to follow men? Follow God. Follow the Christ.


    "Little children, keep yourselves from idols."

  • aqwsed12345
    aqwsed12345

    There's a lot of text, but it's all just an excuse, the point is that you can't refute its content :)

  • aqwsed12345
    aqwsed12345

    The Resurrection of Jesus Christ

    David Henke

    "And if Christ be not risen (bodily), then is our preaching in vain, and your faith is also vain.... But some man will say, `How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?'" (I Corinthians 15:35)

    The Jehovah's Witnesses take a firm stand in support of the resurrection of Jesus Christ, or do they?

    Though they say they believe the doctrine, the problem lies in what they believe about the doctrine.

    The Watchtower Position...

    1. On Jesus. He was raised a glorious spirit creature, but not in a fleshly body. His body was dissolved into gasses.

    2. On the 144,000. This resurrection will copy the resurrection of Jesus in every detail, that is, a re-creation, or copy, of the original personality.

    3. On the Great Crowd. It will be a bodily resurrection because they expect to live on a paradise earth. In reality, this is a re-creation of both body and personality from the memory of God.

    The Biblical Doctrine of Resurrection

    The Bible is very clear in teaching that Jesus rose physically from the tomb in the same body of his death.

    It is also very clear in teaching that every believer will receive a glorified physical body fashioned like Jesus' glorified physical body. To deny the bodily resurrection of Christ is to deny His resurrection completely.

    Watchtower Objections To A Bodily Resurrection

    1. He would be taking His body off the altar, thus removing the ransom sacrifice.

    Answer: It was the blood of Jesus which was shed for our redemption.

    In the Old Testament sacrifices which typified Christ it was the blood which was carried into the Holy of Holies, not the body. Likewise it is Jesus' blood which paid the debt for our sins, (Hebrews 9:22).

    Would not the taking back of his life be equally disastrous according to this Watchtower logic? But Jesus said he had power to lay down His life and take it again, (John 10:17-18).

    2. "Flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of God," (1 Corinthians 15:50

    Answer: The expression "flesh and blood" occurs only five times in the New Testament. We must derive our definition of its meaning from these occurrences. Webster's Dictionary is of no use here.

    Examine the following references and see if the writers are not just as often speaking of "flesh and blood" as "fallen man" as they are of the physical body.

    -Matt. 16:13-17: "Flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father who is in heaven." Is this speaking of the physical flesh, or corrupt, sinful man not revealing Christ's identity to Peter?

    -Eph. 6:12: "For we wrestle not against flesh and blood..." A case can be made either way in the interpretation of this text.

    For instance, because Christians do not physically wrestle with their opposition, Paul may not be referring to the physical body, but rather that Christians wrestle against sinful corruption of man and the spiritual forces of evil influencing him.

    -Heb. 2:14: "Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same...."

    Here the text does refer to the physical flesh because Jesus did not take on Himself a sinful nature.

    -I Cor. 15:50: "...flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God...."

    Paul is answering the question of what kind of body believers will have in the resurrection (vs. 35). It will be a "spiritual body" (vs. 44).

    A "spiritual body" must be defined by the ONLY example we have of one, the body of Jesus.

    3. He was not recognized by His followers; therefore, He must not have been raised in the body of His crucifixion.

    Answer: He was not recognized for several reasons, all of which are indicated by the contexts.

    -John 20. It was early in the morning and still dark, (vs. 1), and Mary was not expecting to see Jesus alive. Nowhere does the text say Jesus appeared to Mary as a gardener. It was Mary's mistake, not Jesus' appearance.

    -John 21:4-12. Jesus was on the seashore, while the disciples were at sea in a ship. It was early morning. The disciples were 200 cubits (approx. 100 yards) from the land. Fog would have been raising from the water at that early hour obscuring the disciple's view.

    Jesus' subsequent actions were those of someone possessing a body.

    -Luke 24:16. The eyes of these disciples were "holden," or "veiled."

    Jesus did this so they could not recognize Him because though He was the Living Word and had taught them for over three years He now wanted to direct their attention to the written Word.

    When they saw from the scriptures that Jesus must suffer and be raised again He then unveiled their eyes so they could recognize Him.

    The implication is very plain if Jesus had not "veiled" their eyes they would have recognized Him. If He was in "another form" there would have been no need to veil their eyes at all.

    4. He was raised "in the Spirit." I Peter 3:18

    Answer: True, he was raised "in the Spirit," but not "as a spirit." In Romans 8:9, all the believers in Rome are said to be "in the Spirit." Were they spirit creatures? The expression "in the Spirit" simply means "in the power of the Spirit." I Peter 3:18 demonstrates that the Holy Spirit raised Jesus from the dead and quickened Him.

    Direct Evidence Of Jesus' Bodily Resurrection

    -John 2:19-21. "Jesus answered and said unto them, `Destroy this temple and in three days I will raise it up.' But he spoke of the temple of his body."

    -Luke 24:38-39. "Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have."

    -Colossians 2:9. "For in him dwelleth all the fullness of the Godhead bodily." (This was written in the present tense and after Jesus' ascension.)

    -Acts 2:25, 26. "...my flesh shall rest in hope." (of what?)

    -Zachariah 13:6. "...`What are these wounds in thine hands? Then he shall answer,, `Those with which I was wounded in the house of my friends...'" (In what will Jesus show these wounds upon his return, a spirit form?)

    Direct Evidence Of The Believer's Bodily Resurrection

    -Philippians 3:21. "Who shall change our vile body that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body...,"

    -Romans 8:11. "...He that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken up your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you."

    -Romans 8:23. "...waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body."

    -I Corinthians 15. (This entire chapter contrasts the present sin-corrupted body with the future glorified body that is fitted for heaven. It never says the physical body is done away with, but rather is "changed." What its "sown," the physical body (vss. 35-38), is raised an incorruptible body.)

    "Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear that we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is." I John 3:2.

    Questions For Further Thought

    1. Is there evidence in the Bible of two kinds of resurrections, some in the body and some as spirits?

    2. What was resurrected in the case of Jesus? His body? His soul? His spirit? According to Watchtower doctrine, the soul is the combination of the body plus its life force, or spirit (an unbiblical teaching).

    Thus, the extinction of the life force (spirit) is also the extinction of the soul (the person himself) leaving only the body.

    The Watchtower is left with no continuity between the person who died on Calvary and the person who rose three days later.

    The risen Jesus is not the Jesus who died on Calvary, but a clone, a facsimile, a duplicate, but not the original.

    Thus, they teach a re-creation, not a resurrection.

    3. If the body was not to be raised, why did Peter and John race to the tomb to verify that Jesus was indeed raised? (John 20:3-9)

    And if the Jews believed in a spiritual resurrection, why would they want a guard placed on the tomb?

    4. Who raised Jesus from the dead according to John 2:19-21? Would not Jesus have to be consciously existing somewhere to effect His own resurrection?

    5. If "the man Jesus is dead, forever dead" (Studies in the Scriptures, Vol. 5, p. 454), who is the man mentioned in 1 Timothy 2:5 and Acts 17:31?

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    @aqwsed12345...


    I am not sure why you keep wanting me to read these anti-Watchtower articles.


    I have been disfellowshipped by the WTBT$. They banned me from going to meetings and they banned me from going to assemblies and conventions. I am not allowed on the KH property. They consider me to be a wicked apostate deserving of death and mentally diseased.


    I believe in Bible truths. My acceptance of beliefs is not based on what is written in a Watchtower publication, it's based on what is written in the Bible and in harmony with holy spirit.


    You can keep posting "How to Preach to a Jehovah's Witness" all you want, but you're barking up the wrong tree.


    For one thing, not all of the Jehovah's Witnesses teachings are wrong just because Jehovah's Witnesses believe them. There was a Flood in Noah's day. Jehovah and Jesus are two different people. There will be a literal paradise on the earth again.


    For another thing, I don't believe something just because the Jehovah's Witnesses borg believes it, so I don't know if you're assuming that or whatever, but just chucking a bunch of text at me that someone else wrote doesn't do anything. Jehovah's Witnesses borg doesn't believe Jesus and Jehovah will walk on the earth, but the Bible teaches they will. Jehovah's Witnesses borg doesn't believe certain people will survive Armageddon, but the Bible teaches they will.


    And thirdly, a lot of that stuff you just posted is kind of antiquated and most of the JWborg people don't even believe some of what you said (like that "gasses" thing and stuff from "Studies in the Scriptures". Your average JW will have no clue what you are talking about.)


    If you want to talk about a verse, why not just tell me in your own words what you think instead of posting a bunch of stuff from somebody else? It's kind of the same thing they do at the carts where they just say "go to the website". It makes me think you're not really confident in what you're saying, and it undermines your argument rather than supporting it.


    I appreciate that you want to talk, though, so thank you for making the effort.🙂


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    There's a lot of text, but it's all just an excuse, the point is that you can't refute its content

    Yes, I noticed too that there is a lot of text on those websites you linked and the articles you cut and pasted. Thank you for being forthright that it's an excuse, that is humble of you. But you don't have to rely on the writings of other people. Let Jesus help you speak instead. Use the Bible instead of the writings of others. Then instead of "refuting content" (which I did refute quite clearly, but if you missed it we can do it again) we can talk about pure words of truth.☺️


    "I write you these things about those who are trying to mislead you. And as for you, the anointing that you received from him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to be teaching you; but the anointing from him is teaching you about all things and is true and is no lie. Just as it has taught you, remain in union with him." (1 John 2:26,27)

  • aqwsed12345
    aqwsed12345

    "I don't believe something just because the Jehovah's Witnesses borg believes it"

    I didn't say this either, but what they believe correctly, other denominations also believe, and their distinctive views are not good.

    "Jehovah and Jesus are two different people."

    We did not say "Jehovah and Jesus", this is WTS jargon, the NT does not use such terminology. However, Trinitarian theology does not claim that the Father and the Son are the same person.

    "There will be a literal paradise on earth again."

    Nope, the current earth will be destroyed, and the new heaven will descend on the new earth, the Jerusalem of the bride, so there are no two castes or classes within salvation.

    Let me recommend the following articles to your attention:

    * https://justpaste.it/arng4

    * https://docdro.id/okyE4TI

    * https://tinyurl.com/37hyph6b from page 464 (or 468 according to the pdf)

    * https://docdro.id/pglKJIx

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    Why won't you just talk about the Bible without recommending articles?

    "We did not say ..."

    Who is this "we"? Are you a borg like JWborg too?

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