by Ade 89 Replies latest watchtower bible
Why are you talking about Tartarus? Isn't that the stuff you put on fish? Maybe that's why Peter mentioned it, he was a fisherman.
I don't really adhere to what Peter said. What does he know. Same for Paul. He had no more knowledge than what the prior scriptures say.
And I certainly do not care what Robert Bowman said about anything.
Hi, SeaBreeze...
In the garden, the snake told Eve that "when you're dead, you're not really dead."
Since that time, the "when you're dead, you're not really dead" theme has been prevalent in many religious teachings, including groups of people who weave that teaching in with some Bible teachings.
The Jews tried to weave it into what they believe and many Christians try to do the same today.
The Bible makes clear that when you're dead, you're dead.
"Whatever your hand finds to do, do with all your might, for there is no work nor planning nor knowledge nor wisdom in the Grave, where you are going." (Ecclesiastes 9:10)
Jesus went to the Grave, meaning he was dead.
He wasn't partially dead. He wasn't mostly dead. He wasn't slightly alive. He was all dead. (Even though it's a fun movie, "The Princess Bride" teaching about "mostly dead is still slightly alive" thing is a fairy tale.🙂)
Thus, while I don't agree with your conclusion in this matter, I do appreciate your generosity and willingness to share what is in your heart. You are very hospitable and I hope you continue to enjoy the blessing of having others pour out the same graciousness and respect to you as you pour out to others.💖
"Practice giving, and people will give to you. They will pour into your laps a fine measure, pressed down, shaken together, and overflowing. For with the measure that you are measuring out, they will measure out to you in return."
@Rattigan🤣jokester - fish dip, haha!
I heard some cookies in Costa Rica are also called Tartarus. If you eat too many, you may have Tartarus on your teeth.😬
(No Tartarus in Paradise, either way.)
I don't know who Robert Bowman is either, but I am confident that Peter and Paul knew what they were talking about.
Ah, Rattigan☺️. I wonder if you're a lot like Nathanael...
"But Na·thanʹa·el said to him: “Can anything good come out of Nazʹa·reth?” Philip said to him: “Come and see.” Jesus saw Na·thanʹa·el coming toward him and said about him: “See, truly an Israelite in whom there is no deceit.”"
EP,
Your belief that Jesus' body was simply materialized and not his own body is identical to the WT position where his body was not resurrected, but was "disovled into gasses". Do you believe that too? If not, what happened to Jesus body if it was not resurrected?
Jesus answered and said to them, “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.”
Then the Jews said, “It has taken forty-six years to build this temple, and will You raise it up in three days?” But He was speaking of the temple of His body. - John 2
Do you think it is a bad bet to contradict Jesus, especially in lifght of Paul's warnings about the implications of such a position?
Air is made up of gases. When these gases heat and cool over the land and water near the ocean, it forms a sea breeze. A sea breeze is full of gas.
Sea Breeze, I have no idea what you are talking about - I said nothing about Jesus body and gas. I quoted Ecclesiastes 9:10 about there being no work in the Grave.
When Jesus resurrected the young man on a funeral bier, the young man raised up his body by sitting up. "With that he approached and touched the bier, and the bearers stood still. Then he said: “Young man, I say to you, get up!” And the dead man sat up..."
After Jesus resurrected Lazarus, then Lazarus raised up his body after being dead a few days when he walked out of the grave. "The man who had been dead came out..."
When Jesus resurrected the little girl, then she immediately raised herself up in response to Jesus' command: "Then, taking the hand of the child, he said to her: “Talʹi·tha cuʹmi,” which, when translated, means: “Little girl, I say to you, get up!” And immediately the girl rose and began walking..."
Jesus resurrected the people. Then they raised up their body and walked in obedience to Jesus' command.
Jehovah resurrected Jesus. Then Jesus raised up his new spirit body and did what Jehovah told him to do - materialize a human body so that he could talk to and hug and eat with the disciples before ascending to heaven.
"Jesus replied to them: “Tear down this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.”"
To "raise up" a temple that's been torn down doesn't mean you have to use the same stones.
When the Babylonians tore down Solomon's temple, was the next temple rebuilt with the exact same stones? Did it look the same?
Sea Breeze, Jesus openly stated that he would be killed. In order to be considered "killed" he needed to be 100% dead.
"Jesus began explaining to his disciples that he must go to Jerusalem and suffer many things from the elders and chief priests and scribes and be killed, and on the third day be raised up. At this Peter took him aside and began to rebuke him, saying: “Be kind to yourself, Lord; you will not have this happen to you at all.” But turning his back, he said to Peter: “Get behind me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to me, because you think, not God’s thoughts, but those of men.”"
I do think it is bad to contradict Jesus.
"Then Jesus said to his disciples: “If anyone wants to come after me, let him disown himself and pick up his torture stake and keep following me. For whoever wants to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for my sake will find it. Really, what good will it do a man if he gains the whole world but loses his life? Or what will a man give in exchange for his life? For the Son of man is to come in the glory of his Father with his angels, and then he will repay each one according to his behavior."
Sea Breeze, true Christians have to be willing to die 100% for Christ. We don't like to die, we don't want to die, but we have to be willing to die 100% when that time comes that we have to choose between being obedient to Christ and being obedient to men.
"And whoever does not accept his torture stake and follow after me is not worthy of me."
what happened to Jesus body
Jesus was resurrected as a mighty spirit creature, but as to your question about what happened to the body of flesh that he sacrificed...
What happened to Moses' body? What happened to Enoch's body?
"For he well knows how we are formed,
Remembering that we are dust."
"...return to the ground, for out of it you were taken. For dust you are and to dust you will return."
"His spirit goes out, he returns to the ground;
On that very day his thoughts perish."
So you think Jesus’ body went back to the ground?
Where? The tomb was empty.
"Now one of the wives of the sons of the prophets cried out to E·liʹsha, saying: “Your servant my husband is dead, and you well know that your servant had always feared Jehovah. Now a creditor has come to take both of my children as his slaves.” At this E·liʹsha said to her: “What can I do for you? Tell me, what do you have in the house?” She replied: “Your servant has nothing at all in the house but a jar of oil.” Then he said: “Go outside, ask for containers from all your neighbors, empty containers. Do not limit yourself to a few. Then go in and close the door behind you and your sons. Fill all these containers, and set the full ones aside.” So she left him. When she closed the door behind her and her sons, they passed the containers to her, and she kept pouring. When the containers were full, she said to one of her sons: “Bring another container to me.” But he said to her: “There are no more containers.” At that the oil stopped. So she came in and told the man of the true God, and he said: “Go, sell the oil and pay off your debts, and you and your sons can live from what is left.”" (2 Kings 4:1-7)
It's possible for a poor woman or her neighbors to empty a container that it may receive more oil from God.
How much more so it's possible for God to empty a grave of a body that He may replace it with a spirit body.
EP,
It sounds like you are willing to entertain any possibility EXCEPT the one that Jesus clearly stated; and that is: when they killed his body he would resurrect his own body.... while he was still dead.
Jesus answered and said to them, “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.”
Then the Jews said, “It has taken forty-six years to build this temple, and will You raise it up in three days?” But He was speaking of the temple of His body. - John 2
God says if we believe Jesus' body wasn't raised from the dead ... "we are still in our sins".
Does that concern you ?
Of course, I am very concerned for you...you keep saying that Jesus was never dead.
If you think he was never dead, then you must also think he was never raised from the dead, and, as you said...
God says if we believe Jesus' body wasn't raised from the dead ... "we are still in our sins". "
