ScotsMan..If you were going to quote my post,why did you use only a few selected words?..Would quoteing me in full,not serve your purposes..You are a dishonest person..Add that to the list of Jehovah`s Witness Imoralities..Many are just like you..Some are not..Like I said in my post,you so selectivly chose the words from.."I wouldn`t want to Paint all Jehovah`s Witness`s with the same brush"..It`s unfortunate that Actions like Yours,make All Jehovah`s Witness`s look Bad to someone outside the organization..Even more unfortunate is the fact there are more like you,than decent JW`s...OUTLAW
The Scotsman...this thread is started for you if you wish to comment....
by FreedomFrog 116 Replies latest jw friends
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Hoping4Change
I know that The Faithful Slave are certainly not keen for brothers and sisters to come to such forums due to the negative effect it could have on their faith.
Faith in what? The F&DS? Seems to me that the Bible promotes faith in Jehovah and Jesus, NOT any group of men. Faith is built up and strengthened by questioning, by exploring the truthfulness of claims made, NOT by blind or unquestioning acceptance.
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TheKings
as a jw, you learn to be prejudiced, and to call your prejudice "wisdom". you think in terms of propaganda. as in, all others schools of thought are babylon and the sky is falling little by little each day leading up to the big A, armageddon when all these evil-doers' faces will melt off and their corpses picked by buzzards.
but you don't think about the violent deaths of the people in the community around you at the hands of your 'loving god', unless someone slams a door in your face. then they are just asking for it, aren't they?
you eat up anything that reassures these mantras implanted in your skull without the least bit of discretion while refusing to even entertain a contrary view no matter how blatantly true.
you are a good dog for master = the christ = the annointed = the *self-annointed*
kindness from others and your own ignorance. -
Frank75
Correction - gossip is a way of life IN LIFE. So because some gossiped thats it - the entire organisation 6.7 million are just rejected.
Now that is an over simplification. No one here left the WT religion because of Gossip alone. You made a point of waving the morality of JW's. The poster was merely pointing out it is not a commendable record at all!
"Gossip as a way of life"? Not really for those who are progressing in "The Christ" and making over their minds and putting on the new personality. Sure people will gossip as it is a sign of immaturity, and most gossip is harmless banter about people with no malice. However in the WT world, the elders and their wives are renowned for their malicious gossip that slanders peoples good reputation. The pioneers, elders, MS's, CO, DO and Bethel leaders all thrive on gossip and make life altering decisions and judgments based on such hearsay and gossip.
Again if you were allowed access to the congregation files you would see just how vicious, petty, vindictive and slanderous letters of introduction are. The ones authoring these letters are not newbies but represent the very core culture of the WT religion. That only deals with written slanders or libel, then there is the whispering and verbal attacks that murder people socially and worse.
Then there is the snitching that goes on, often times without much basis or just one eye witness. Jesus said, " if your brother commits a sin, go lay bare his fault between you and him alone".
This is never followed by the adherents of the WT religion. Likewise, the WT has negated these words of Christ by saying, "Jesus meant theft or slander sin here, gross sin must go straight to the elders!"
What is the justification scripturally for that interpretation? Jesus said SIN, end of story and with no qualification.
But even with the JW perversion of this text, Dubs do not try to deal with such problems alone, but rather choose to badmouth and slander their brothers and TRY them in the court of public opinion. By the time the elders stick their noses in, there is no one unbiased enough to render any help!
Read the story of Joseph when he learned Mary was pregnant and how he planned to deal with the matter. Ask yourself if that course he took (the narrative labels him righteous for doing so) is encouraged by the WT religion or leaders. I would be curious to know your answer!
As far as rejecting 6.7 million, I don't think any of us have done that, but rather they have been forced by the WT to reject us. You are an exception and we are happy that you are here even though you would be severely punished if your elders and friends knew you were here talking to us.
I once felt as you do Obiwan Scotsman, but you will soon see that there is very little redemptive value in the WT religion.
Paul said, " having a form of godly devotion but proving false to its power; and from these turn away. 6 For from these arise those men who slyly work their way into households and lead as their captives weak women loaded down with sins, led by various desires, 7 always learning and yet never able to come to an accurate knowledge of truth.
The WT leaders are sly my brother. They have all of you on a tread mill to keep you "learning" but never seeing the truth! Look closely at those words and you will see why most of us left the Watchtower religion. Obedience to that counsel and honest recognition of who it applies to!
Frank75
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Frank75
Seems to me that the Bible promotes faith in Jehovah and Jesus, NOT any group of men. Faith is built up and strengthened by questioning, by exploring the truthfulness of claims made, NOT by blind or unquestioning acceptance.
Good point H4C
The WT actually promotes faith in the infrastructure of the JW religion. When i had an issue years ago that i brought to the Service desk, the anonymous instruction I was given (even though i recognised his voice he would not confirm or deny who he was to me) was, "we need to have faith in the organization."
That is doctrinal, and perhaps Ninja can post the original article pasted here from the CD rom:
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w793/1p.12FaithinJehovah’sVictoriousOrganization***a small congregation of sincere Bible students divorced themselves from all of Christendom’s religious organizations. They turned their backs on its sectarian creeds and followed the example of the first-century Beroeans who searched the Scriptures daily to arrive at the apostolic faith. ...
The aforesaid congregation earnestly sought to prove worthyof being Jehovah’s visible organizationand his instrument.
The WT does not say that the bible students were part of Jehovah's organization, but "are" that visible organization. The article asks the reader to have faith in "it".
That is idolatry and you are perhaps too blind at present to yet recognize it for what it is.
Frank75
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Frank75
Another way the WT promotes this idolatry is by twisting reason around that equates them to Jehovah. The bible says this:
(Jeremiah 9:4-5) 4 "Guard yourselves each one against his own companion, and put YOUR trust in no brother at all. For even every brother would positively supplant, and every companion himself would walk around as a mere slanderer, 5 and they keep trifling each one with his companion; . . .
(Psalm 118:9) 9 It is better to take refuge in Jehovah Than to trust in nobles.
Clearly the bible contrasts the trust of God with not trusting in men, even those we would call brother. Although there may have been limited benefit of those words to apply to Israelite leaders who trusted in alliances with other nations and leaders, the context and language shows that the primary beneficiary of that warning was to the common Israelite.
Even though those leaders were "appointed" even "anointed" by God directly at times, the people were NOT to trust them blindly.
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w033/1p.17TrustinJehovahWithAllYourHeart***What
DoesItMeantoTrustinJehovah?17
In addition, trusting in Jehovah means trusting those whom he trusts. For example, Jehovah has arranged for "the faithful and discreet slave" to care for the earthly Kingdom interests. (Matthew 24:45-47) We do not try to go it alone, and we do not ignore that appointment, for we trust in Jehovah’s arrangement. Further, elders serve in the local Christian congregation and, according to the apostle Paul, are appointed by holy spirit. (Acts 20:28) By cooperating with the elder arrangement in the congregation, we also show that we trust in Jehovah.—Hebrews 13:17.I do not attempt to equate JW's with Israel as there is at least "bible" proof that God appointed those leaders and no evidence at all that JW's have any special status today. The above merely illustrates the disparity that exists between what the bible says and the WT teaches IT's followers!
Frank75
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jgnat
Divorce are going down - quite right. But so are marriages - the % ratio of divorce to marriage (in britain at least) is worse than ever.
Not so in Canada, as my link demonstrated. The study found that the younger the couple when married, the more likely they would divorce later. People are now waiting longer to get married, and as a consequence, are not divorcing as much.
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hammer1
The old "were not perfect" defense. Those truly representing, if indeed Christ has a n organized representative on Earth, would not perpetrate such injustices against the sheep. Jesus said that the true shepherds would leave the ninety-nine to go tend to the one in need. Documented case after case including my own BTW shows that the GB only looks away with indifference.
Maybe you would feel different if your daughter or other relative was molested by one of the thousands of paedophiles that the GB shields from Caesar's law. Under such protection also continue to molest. Again documented.
What about the thousands that are discarded each year by unloving elders who have no grasp of simple principles of justice or love for that matter. Jesus said forgive 77 times, is that hard to grasp? Does one have to be perfect??!! I dont think so. Jesus said my yoke is kindly and my load is light. Men, especially untrained and grossly mislead men are not capable of judging with righteousness, so Jesus counseled his followers not to judge one another. The Apostle Paul himself refused to submit to a Judicial committee that was formed against him. 1 Cor 4:3
Jesus said you will know my followers by the love they show. Although witnesses do attempt to show love it is stifled by a controlling organization that makes morality rulings on just about every aspect of their lives. Like infantile children they tattle on one another contrary to to the fine example of 1st century Christians and the earthly parents of our Lord. Joseph refused to turn Mary over to the religous authorities as Joseph believed, quite honestly that she had committed adultery. The Bible account comments that Joseph did not want to turn her into a spectacle. For this example specifically Joseph is remembered as a righteous man.
The comparison of Witnesses to David Koresh is a little harsh but not totally unfair. The Witness Religion puts to death (in a spiritual sense) , by their own admission, about 70 thousand per year. That is a lot of Blood on the GB's hands. This unscripural condemnation turns these ones into a spectacle, humiliating them, then they are unlovingly gossipped about as other witnesses speculate as to what that person may have done. Lifelong friends turn there back on these ones based on the judgment of three or four imperfect men.
Jesus told us that everything should take place in the LIGHT. However these JC's are conducted usually in the dark of night and behind closed doors. The ones judging are not held up to any standard and are not accountable to the congregation for their actions. Neither the Bible or Christ ever mandated such actions against the sheep. As you say people are imperfect, The GB hides behind this excuse but this same rule cannot be applied to the sheep? I have seen countless lives ruined and families torn apart. I have seen once bright loving Chrisians turned into relentess viscous dogs tearing away at the flesh of ones who have made simple mistakes and were sorry. I have personal knowledge of ones who have taken their own lives because they were now convinced that God had abandoned them and no longer loved them. This is true wickedness and it perpetrated by the unloving and unchristian policies of the GB.
Get Real Scotty
BTW 1975!!!! where were you living, in a hole? I suggest you do a little research into the 130 years of failed prophecy of the WT.
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AlanF
Zowie! Another JW apologist.
Scotsman, I'll cut to the quick here. The Society claims that elders, and especially Governing Body members, are appointed by holy spirit. Not only are they appointed by holy spirit, but the decisions they render in God's name are not a product of their own thinking, but merely reflect "what has already been decided in heaven". If you want citations from The Watchtower, I'll post them. But I think you already know these things.
Now, the Society has published condemnations of the Catholic Church for covering up for pedophile priests, and for moving them from one parish to another when they were discovered. Clearly, any claimed Christian who would do such things -- either molesting children or covering up for molesters -- cannot have God's backing, and in fact is a gross hypocrite.
One Governing Body member, a Scotsman named Leo Greenlees, was booted off the Governing Body in late 1984 for molesting a 10 year old boy. Greenlees was found by the rest of the GB to be "repentant", and was not disfellowshipped. Greenlees was then sent out "to the field" as a special pioneer. He died around 1989, a member of a congregation in New Orleans.
Is this not exactly the same thing that the Society rightly condemns the Catholic Church for doing? How can you defend the Governing Body's actions in sending this molestor out to other "parishes" so as to put children at risk?
The implications of the Governing Body's actions are clear. Greenlees was in his 70s when convicted of molesting; therefore he was a molestor for a long time before that age, since men don't begin lusting after young boys when in their 70s, but they do continue such lusting. Greenlees was a pedophile and a homosexual, therefore, when he was appointed to the Governing Body in 1971. He was the same when he was invited to Brooklyn Bethel in 1964 to become a Director. Since we agree that God would not appoint a child molestor to any position of responsibility in a True Christian Congregation, God did not appoint Greenlees as an elder or as a Governing Body member -- but this contradicts the Governing Body's teaching. Therefore, the Governing Body's teaching is false and in opposition to God.
I know exactly how, if you attempt at all, you'll try to defend the Society against the above facts (you already know that if you deny the basic fact that Greenlees was a child molestor, all you need do is call Brooklyn Bethel and discuss the situation with a man in some responsible position; he will not deny it). You'll attempt to excuse the "appointed by holy spirit" doctrine, claiming that it doesn't mean what the Society teaches (more correctly, pretends to teach). But all you'll have done is further damage your own faith in Watchtower leaders, since you know very well you're defending the indefensible.
AlanF