The Scotsman...this thread is started for you if you wish to comment.... (page 7)

OUTLAW

Scotsman..Just one more thought....."The protection of the Organization"..???..That is probably one of the dumbest things any Jehovah`s Witness can say..There are plenty of dumb things JW`s say,but that is one of the dumbest..LOL!!..Why?..Because..Through it`s insane Rules and Policies.The WBT$ has killed more Jehovah`s Witness`s than any other organization on the earth..There is a better chance the WBT$ will get a Jehovah`s Witness killed,than all other outside organizations combined.....The WBT$ organization,is a Jehovah`s Witness Death Trap...OUTLAW

Zico

Scotsman,

If the bible is inerrant, and written by imperfect humans, why can't Jehovah direct the imperfect writers of the Watchtower publications, so they don't make so many mistakes?

Do you know of any bible writers who received 'New light' and re-wrote sections of their books or letters several times over their lifetimes?

AlphaOmega

Do you know of any bible writers who received 'New light' and re-wrote sections of their books or letters several times over their lifetimes?

Maybe the Watchtower Society is "Beta Testing" their religion on the JWs? All the flashes of "new light" must be update patches.

Just a thought

dawg

WHat happened to my brother the scottsman... it may be nighttime where he's at.

AWAKE&WATCHING

Wow. FreedomFrog - I know you started this for The Scotsman but you have no idea how much I needed all this info. right now. Thanks to all of you for the effort you put into helping us "newbies" sort through the maze to get to the facts.

Scotsman - I think I got this from Blondie quoting Abraham Lincoln: "How many legs does a dog have if you call a tail a leg? Four. Calling a tail a leg doesn't make it a leg."

Calling lies the truth doesn't make it the truth.

I wish you well, as we all do. There was a time when most of us here would have died for our beliefs.

AlphaOmega

I'm guessing that he's from Scotland. He's the same timezone as the rest of the UK. If he's like me, he's just got in from work and is now cooking his dinner. (But I have become a JWD addict, so I can do both at once).

RollerDave

The thing about 'new light' is that for it to be a true doctrine, it would have to be logically consistant, and it's not.

The first teachings would be vague, not clearly understandable, then as 'light flashed up' details would become clear, but they wouldn't change, only become more clear.

New light would not contradict old light, just make it more clear. It would be the sum total of light both old and new that would completely reveal truth.

'old light' cannot ever be shown to be error for this doctrine to work, and it is unquestionable that the WTS has taught error, often costing people their very lives, and then 'corrected' these errors with so-called 'new light' which also turned out to be error once 'newer light' was revealed.

How is this different than that scripture about the blind stumbling from one obstacle to another?

In any biblical example of the gradual revelation of biblical truth or God's plan you can point to, what was revealed remained true even when considered in the light of further revelation.

For your considration.

Oh, Scottsman, thanks for being such a reasonable fellow and actually discussing, this thread has been very informative and without your lively discourse it is possible it wouldn't have come together so nicely!

Roller

AlphaOmega

Oh, Scottsman, thanks for being such a reasonable fellow and actually discussing, this thread has been very informative and without your lively discourse it is possible it wouldn't have come together so nicely!
Roller

Seconded.

Hope that we haven't been too overpowering.

Sad emo

Oooohh I missed lots whilst away! A few comments in my reply appear to have been covered already but I don't want the Scotsman to think I ran away afraid of his questions so here goes!

People can get very picky on specific words "when it suits them".

Indeed they can! Back at ya

No-one is saying the organisation or the anointed are on a par with Jesus. Jesus is king in Heaven, the anointed are the Earthly element of the universal organisation. Jesus has the name above every other name, he is second only to jehovah.
And it is not about a where or a who, it is about a condition - An approved condition between the individual and Jehovah - in the end it is one on one. The Faithful slave are there as the approved channel between humans and jehovah "at this point" but not in the new order, then it returns to one on one.

Ok - "where shall we go/to who shall we go (whichever) you have the words of everlasting life" - Is that Jesus or the organisation? Simple question.

Something else you just raised in your reply too - if Jesus has the name above every other name, does that include God's name, Jehovah/Yahweh?

I fully agree with you that it's about approved condition (although I prefer to call it a right relationship) between the individual and Jehovah - but surely Christ is the 'approved channel' i.e. perfect mediator, not an imperfect organisation? He is the one who did all the hard work, there is no other mediator between God and man.

I read and think every day, because I do not agree with you does not mean that I do not have the ability to analyze, question and think on a subject. 2 people can read and think and come to different conclusions - agreed?

Agreed, you are as free as the organisation allows you to be on analysis - don't ask too many questions though, that may get you in trouble!!

How do I know this is the "right organisation"? Interesting expression.
Ultimately there is an absolute truth of a matter, do you agree with that?
I have considered other belief systems and very quickly they seem uncomfortable. Involvement with war, questionable practices, babylonish teachings.

On this side of eternity, no I don't believe in absolute truth of matters. Do you seriously believe that the organisation doesn't have any questionable practices and babylonish teachings? Affilliation to the UN? Paedophiles? Need I mention more? I'm sure you yourself would say that the organisation is imperfect - perhaps they should take the log out of their own eye first before they start mudslinging!

Jehovahs Witnesses stand out in this world as very different. Jesus said that his tue followers would be no part of the world - they would be different. They would also have enemies!!!

Why do Jehovah's Witnesses have this idea that they're the only ones being persecuted for Christ!! I dare you to take a look at a couple of 'Christendoms' mission websites. Here's one to get you started: http://www.csw.org.uk/latestnews/

Go on, I dare you! Let me know what you think.

And I don't buy the stuff about being no part of the world either - if you drive a car, have a credit card, own a house or a business, buy food, you're part of the world system whether you like to admit it or not! Money makes the world go round, if you use money, you're a part of it.

On your other point - Someone who claimed to be of the anointed can become unfaithful or leave the organisation whenever they feel like it. Anointed or Great Crowd - they must "remain" in that approved condition. So to suggest that all anointed are somehow all wrong because a few have fell by the way side is a weak argument.

All? Where exactly did I say that all the anointed are wrong? My point is that it only takes one bad apple to ruin the whole barrel, one wonky wheel to steer a whole car off course, whether they stay in the organisation or not, it's the damage that is done whilst they are 'pretending' to be anointed that matters. From my study of JW history, I reckon JF Rutherford was one bad apple, I don't actually have too much problem with Russel's teachings. The WTS is Rutherford's baby, not Russel's

FreedomFrog

Oh, Scottsman, thanks for being such a reasonable fellow and actually discussing, this thread has been very informative and without your lively discourse it is possible it wouldn't have come together so nicely!
Roller
Seconded.
Hope that we haven't been too overpowering.

I agree. Sometimes we tend to give too much at once forgetting how it was for us starting to ask questions. I know 4 years ago I stayed up days at a time researching, comparing, trying to prove to myself that the Jehovah's Witness's were right. In my heart I didn't want them to be wrong but in my brain things just wasn't making sense.

If you can take a bit at a time and research each piece a bit further...find the copies yourself...prove to yourself about the questions....Just don't ignore the questions that is in YOUR own mind...dig and find the answers. If you're sitting at a Sunday meeting and something doesn't click right...go check it out...

Wow. FreedomFrog - I know you started this for The Scotsman but you have no idea how much I needed all this info. right now. Thanks to all of you for the effort you put into helping us "newbies" sort through the maze to get to the facts.

Most of us have been through what you, Scotsman and others that are newly coming out are going through. It is very overwhelming and at times frustrating. For most of us, living forever on a paradise with no pain or fears is an attractive offer. To see our dead loved ones in this paradise is a picture perfect dream. And for some of us, finding out that this isn't going to happen as we have been taught is crushing. I'm just so glad so many on here are eager to help. I know they have been here for me when I've went through my changes.

The Scotsman...this thread is started for you if you wish to comment....

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