by minimus 112 Replies latest jw friends
Torture is never acceptable. Not only ar the results always suspect, but your basis for torture can never be 100% accurate.
The ends do not justify the means. If you pretend to having a better way to live, you cannot use evil means to create it. The means always taint the ends.
Take your shirt off, wrap one layer of the shirt around your head and pull it tight, then step in the shower with the water on and spraying it.
Post back and say it's not torture if you weren't doing it to yourself.
Get someone to tie you to a board then get them to wrap your head in a bag usualy plastic. Then tell some one to keep dumping water on your head until you confess to whatever with no let up, and yes some have died during this. Which is another reason it is torture.
"The end justifies the means."
And why do you assume that for something that can so obviously have so many negative consequences, it should be assumed that there will be a good "end" that will justify the means?
C'mon. They aren't just looking for a confession. They aren't looking for faulty intelligence.
minimus: So, it's ok to be terrorists if we're terorizing terrorists? Then we offer nothing better than them.
Let's shut down the United States - the fundamentalist Xtians have won.
If you folks wanna believe that "torture" hasn't been an acceptable practice until Bush came on board, I've got a bridge I want to sell you.
I'm not against certain types of torture if an extremist were to have information that would ultimately result in the deaths of many thousands of innocent victims. The end justifies the means.
But if the information is incorrect, then what good is it?
All it means is that the American Gov't is no better than the terrorists they are torturing.
They are just as dangerous.
I think spying and infiltrating an enemy has a more productive outcome and gains more accurate information.
Bribery probably has about as good a chance as getting accurate info as torture.
Both might get you a confession, whether or not that confession is the truth, is another matter.
C'mon. They aren't just looking for a confession. They aren't looking for faulty intelligence.
Sorry, I missed that one.
So, they're torturing them just for the fun of it then? Or?
And they think they are better than the terrorists?
You have to fight fire with fire. Diplomacy doesn't work. These terrorists plainly say how they want to exterminate us and will do so! If it were that easy, I'd love to see a button pushed to rid us of these killers before they reach their goals.
minimus: I don't recall limiting my comments on the US to the Republicans, nor do I have any illusions that the current Administration is the only one that tortured. The argument still stands, though: fire only creates more fire, it doesn't fix anything - and fire does not create peace. The means you use will create the kind of end you will achieve. Torture is not the answer, nor is it acceptable if you want to achieve a positive society.
Remember how well the inquisition worked for the Catholic church? We live in such a greate place now, without the "perfidious Jew" and with a Theocratic world order with the Pope at the head.
Read Ghandi. If you want peace, you must practice peace.
BTW, do you think wishing terrorists dead is wrong? If a terrorist plainly told you that he and his followers will hunt you down and kill you and your family, would you prefer to get to them first, even if it means killing them? I would.
I think that if you can "bribe" a person or group and be successful against them,, well that would be dandy. But I don't see Bin Laden and company falling for a bribe.
