I actually had a well-meaning professional counselor who was counseling my son for some unrelated issues, apologize profusely to me for asking me questions about my past one day when we were alone. I was already overwhelmed emotionally with my son's problems and was not ready or able to cope at the time with "the can of worms" she opened up. It "triggered" me into a nervous breakdown and I couldn't even go to work.
For those who don't know, "triggers" are anything that cause a victim or a survivor of abuse to flash back. A trigger can be a smell, a sound, a phrase or reading/watching something that reminds or triggers an involuntary, often uncontrolled, reaction. Example: Nina and I were talking about why I was suicidal, severely depressed, could barely work, etc. She wanted to know if I had ever been abused as a child. I quickly denied it. Then she suddenly leaned forward and in a rather intense voice with big eyes said, "Did anyone ever say to you -- 'If you tell I'm going to kill you'"? I ended up screaming for several minutes huddled in a corner. That is a trigger, albeit an unusually reactive one.
Confronting your abuser is the penultimate trigger. Doing so in front of a hostile crowd is about a 9.6 on the Sphincter Scale.
If you truly are going to get involved in supporting survivors of child abuse, you will be subject to the most vicious attacks by some people using the vilest of language. You will hear the most gruesome, graphic details of abuse that will sicken your stomach and it won't all be in the polite privacy of a therapist's office. Some of it may be very public. If you can't handle a little heat and disagreement on this discussion forum, which was very mild, without becoming hurt and defensive, how are you going to handle the raging infernos of hell that is supporting abuse survivors?
"The smell of infant sex" is nothing. I've heard stories from other survivors that involved sadism on a level that brought tears to my eyes. But if you are going to be in this subject, abuse victims need to be given room to move at their own speed, which includes saying as much as or as little as they need to. It also means letting them tell their story, and since everyone is different, some stories are told more graphically than others. In Mike Lew's book "Victims No Longer" several survivors tell their story. Some are very brief and give no details as to what was done to them. Others were very graphic, including the man who, as a boy, was sodomized so badly he had to be hospitalized to repair the damage.
I've shared some things on this board that were intense but I tried not to be graphic as I didn't need this board to support me. But there was a time I did need that, and I did have Nina to talk to, and I was very graphic with her. If she had chastised me, even once, about some of the things I was debriefing about, or told me I shouldn't speak that way, I would have shut up forever.
There is nothing wrong in having a reaction to what is said, so long as you make clear the reaction is about the perpetrator, not the victim, that your anger is directed at the perp did, not the story the victim is relating. I'm sorry you were uncomfortable hearing just a tiny description of child abuse.
And then there are Jehovah's Witnesses who would villify you as would not believe possible. Cog is right, if you think the constructive criticism that has been given on this thread is painful, you should not even think of being involved with exposing a Witness perpetrator. We had 9 elders in White Rock; all 9 of them, separately and over 3 years, marched to my house to "prove" to me that I was a liar, insane, a troublemaker, hated by Jehovah (but he really loved me except when he hated me because I was lying). One remark that still rings in my ears was the elder who said, "Jehovah is far too busy to worry about your petty little problems."
Nina had it very tough as she was still going to meetings. The criticism, shunning, snide comments and shabby treatment she received makes anything hillary_step, Farkel, AlanF or JanH says seem like a folk dance in comparison. I mean no disrespect to you Flipper, I was taking you at your word that you wanted a discussion on this subject and to listen to all sides. Careful with what you say that you want as sometimes you get it.
Maybe a better thread title would have been " How and is it possible to bring known pedophiles who got away with their actions by virtue of being associated with the JWS finally brought to trial ? "
Forgive me, maybe I'm missing something, but that seems to be pretty much what Flipper asked in his original post.
My thinking is that putting all efforts into just exposing these criminals and not going any further then that would be pointless and tragically damaging to the victims
in the most unimaginable ways, so we certainly wouldn't want to do that.
How so?
I did try to go further, but legally the statute of limitations ran out (as well as the fact that the abuse took place in a different state). Additionally many of my memories were recoverd memories and that was, and still is, somewhat controversial.
As for Jehovah's Witnesses, well tell me what more I could have done? I told the elders in my congregation, my father's congregation, 3 CO's, 1 DO, I wrote a letter to Brooklyn, I shouted it from the rooftops. My paternal grandmother (my father's mother) confirmed many of the memories I was having at the time. She even agreed to say something to the elders. The elders refused since she was not a Witness and "you know how worldly people lie." What else could have been done?
But doing all that, at that stage of recover for me, was extremely damaging to me. By doing what I did, the way I did it, reinforced the worthless feelings I had been trained to believe in by my abusive parents. It also permanently stamped in my heart that, if there is a god, he doesn't give a damn.
So I'm not clear on what you mean here. Can you help me out?
In reflection of what happened with the Catholics recently, people that were abused when they were children at the hands of priests realized when they
became adults that something should be done in the name of social justice and to correct a wrong that had occurred in their lives.
They took a stand knew what they were in for and what they were up against but persevered and did successfully put a few priests behind bars, with all of the support from
their families , friends and community. From all that I have heard they felt it was all worth it in the end, it seemed to have brought some closure to the whole situation, justice did prevail
and yes this did gave a forewarning to anyone that may had contemplated on this kind of action. Priest , JWS or other wise, society does want are children protected from sexual predators
both in and outside of any religious organization to be sure.
What makes you think this isn't already happening, or has happened? There have been several attorneys involved in pursuing just what you propose, I met with one, Kim Norris. They have spent hundreds of unpaid hours building case after case. Many don't pan out (mine for example as the statute of limitations had run out). A few have.
You mention the Catholic Church, I don't pretend to have the level of understanding that Kim, or Blondie would have about it but the first thing that hits me is the Church had a paper trail a mile long. There were numerous documents showing bishops and archbishops knew a particular priest was sexually assaulting children and they made no effort to stop it (other than reassigning him to fresh meat).
Jehovah's Witnesses don't have a paper trail. They are more cunning by far. This is one reason why elders are instructed to call Brooklyn, rather than put something in writing. Plausible deniability. There is more to it than that, and as I say I am no expert so I'll let someone else take that part over.
But on a more personal level, I don't think you appreciate the tremendous emotional cost of mounting such an attack. You find yourself in a situation, forced to say publicly to the most hostile audience imaginable the single, most humiliating, degrading and dehumanizing details of your life. And after you've found the courage to say those words, you must then listen to that audience rip apart every single detail. "Liar" is the kindest thing said to you.
"Did you like it?" "Are you queer?" "Your father is a decent man, not like you." "Children can hurt a parent far worse than a parent can hurt child." "Well IF your story is true it happened before your father was baptized, so Jehovah has forgiven him now you need to get on your knees and beg his forgiveness." "Your family will be reunited in a paradise earth while you are destroyed at Armageddon; you'll be food for the birds." "Let me show you a few scriptures to prove why Jehovah hates you." "Justice is just another name for vengence and you know how Jehovah feels about vengence." "If you don't shut up about your father I will see to it personally that you are disfellowshipped."
And that's just the religious angle. Wait till lawyers get a hold of you. In a deposition, they go over and over your story and any misstatement, misremembered detail, any inconsistency is hammered at you over and over. Then there's the trial. I listened to a teenager once who had to testify against her perpetrator. I heard from her how difficult it was to psyche up to it before, during and after. It's a helluva thing.
If a survivor wants to pursue their abuser, then more power to them. But, as I said before, it is a huge mistake to "use" victims to wage war. There is that old Buddhist saying, "Before you embark on a journey of revenge, dig two graves."
I'm curious, what ideas to bring "known" perpetrators to trial do you have in mind?
Chris
