How Can We Expose Child Abusers - Who Got Away with it as Witnesses ?

by flipper 115 Replies latest watchtower child-abuse

  • hillary_step
    hillary_step

    Big Tex,

    When I first came on this board 6 years ago, things were quite a bit more "wild west" (to use Bowen's phrase from his goodbye thread), much more in-your-face than now, but I did notice that with a handful of people, there was some depth and intelligence to the very frank talk. In your case, I noticed something more, you had a side that isn't on display. You challenge people to work to see it, but once it is seen you become a much more rounded, perceptive, kind and extraordinarily big hearted man; I still see that in very nearly every post.

    I do think there is a difference between offering support and being cuddly. Support isn't always about offering a pat on the back, rather (I think) many times it's more about giving someone a safe spot in the storm to open up about a problem and then giving appropriate feedback. More empathy than sympathy. And if there is a shared experience, wisdom painfully learned from past mistakes, and so on, then offering that is part of support as well. As this is a discussion board, I think once you throw something out there, you have to be prepared for whatever comes back and whatever form that takes. I think that's healthy personally.

    So do I Chris. A big difference. The problem is that many posters cannot see the difference between emotional 'support', flippant {{{{{hugs}}}}}, sympathy, trying to impress others, and empowerment. My position, stated numerous times now, is that the amount of 'support' that can be given on an international discussion Board which deals with topics on a single page from favorite receipes to murder and child abuse is very limited indeed. This Board is no substitute for professional help.

    A person might think that posting to an alchoholic, {{{{{{Sorry you fell of the wagon - thinking of you}}}}}} is actually supporting that person, when actually it may be empowering them into further negative behavior.

    A person might feel that laughing at the disloyalty and antics that a seventeen year old kid shows towards the parents who fed and clothed him for years is being {{{{{{supportive}}}}}, but it may actually be empowering them into further negative behavior. As I have also noted, private mail, private contact, and face to face meeting in real life is the beginning of true support, and even then only the beginning.

    A person might feel that {{{{{{{leave your wife}}}}}}}} is supportive when it may actually empower a person to a flawed decision that may bring misery to many other people.

    The term 'support' implies sustained help and effort, not a few smilie faces or a pile of bracketed hugs on a discussion board. Some here are getting dangerously close to the attitude expressed within the WTS elder meetings:

    So Brother Supporter, you were to visist Sister Suicide Attempt to give her help. What happened?"

    Well Brother Sit On Yer Arse, I visited her last Monday suggested that she engage in deeper Bible research and get out on Field Service"

    Well done Brother Supporter, we can now consider her supported. Let us move on now to who is qualified to open and close the windows in the Kingdom hall.

    There now ensues a fifty minute discussion during which it is unanimously agreed that Brother Creepy Sod is indeed qualified to ventilate the Kingdom hall.

    HS

  • llbh
    llbh

    Hi HS

    I agree that if person has serious issues they should seek the appropriate help. To come here whinging then doing little or nothing about a problem is an exercise in futilty. As i told someone last night.

    This board can be great for asking questions and exchanging views, bot should only be a steeping stone at most for people with problems

    Having said that we have - well most, have gone on to the lighter threads here and enjoyed ourselves.

    As for exposing chlid molestors i have made views known.

    Regards David

  • free2think
    free2think

    sparkplug, that was very thoughtfully clarified - thanks for taking the time to explain

    HS thanks for clarifying another aspect of the spectrum. BTW I don't like those large brackets either, I always use the smaller ones.

    ql

  • Finally-Free
    Finally-Free
    A person might think that posting to an alchoholic, {{{{{{Sorry you fell of the wagon - thinking of you}}}}}} is actually supporting that person, when actually it may be empowering them into further negative behavior.

    Cuddles are great, but sometimes a good, old-fashioned Liverpool kiss can be more effective.

    W

  • flipper
    flipper

    I appreciate all the comments and reflections of those of you who have responded on this thread. Especially those who suffered abuse and saw others abused. My heart goes out to you and I truly hope you have attained a measure of healing in your life.

    HILLARY STEP- You are still showing great disrespect for these people by using the term " the smell of infant sex" to describe what pedophiles enjoy in abusing others. Big Tex may have not been offended, but others who were molested as infants could totally be devastated by use of this term. I'm sure it does NOT bring back positive images for those who have suffered so much when young. I highly advise you to show more compassion and "emotional intelligence " before using terms such as this

  • cognizant dissident
    cognizant dissident
    HILLARY STEP- You are still showing great disrespect for these people by using the term " the smell of infant sex" to describe what pedophiles enjoy in abusing others. Big Tex may have not been offended, but others who were molested as infants could totally be devastated by use of this term. I'm sure it does NOT bring back positive images for those who have suffered so much when young. I highly advise you to show more compassion and "emotional intelligence " before using terms such as this. Peace out, Mr. Flipper

    I would like to offer another perspective on this. It is only one survivor's perspective, I don't claim to speak for all. There may indeed be some survivors who are offended by graphic description of sexual abuse. I doubt it, though. After what they have lived through, Hillary's remark would be quite mild in comparison.

    I thought this remark was quite graphic when I read it, but I was not offended either. One of the problems that arises frequently, I believe, in trying to expose child abuse, is that in general, most people don't want to know about it or hear about it. The truth of it is very graphic and very ugly. It is the inability to face that graphic and ugly truth that is responsible for the backlash against those who confront and tell. It is much easier to believe that a victim is emotionally deranged than to believe that someone you know and may be freinds with can do something so hideous to a child. Inability to hear the ugly details is much of what keeps victims feeling silenced and without a voice, IMO.

    This inability also sometimes extends to "professionals" and is why I stated earlier that they are not always helpful. Some have been know to also blame the victim, as was pointed out by other posters. I didn't make that remark to discourage any from seeking out professional help, but just to be cautious in the professionals that they choose, that they are really qualified to help abuse victims. Many aren't.

    I am reminded of when Lady Lee posted the very graphic details of her own abuse on this forum. It got very few reads and even fewer responses. Many people just can't stomach it and who can blame them? This was my experience too. Most people do not want to know the truth! This includes some doctors, psychiatrists and psychologists.

    However, in my own experience, and that of friends with whom I am intimately acquainted with their own stories of abuse, what is an essential part of their healing is that they can tell the horribly graphic details of their own abuse to someone and not have them turn away in disgust. That they can use the vilest language available to describe what was done to them and still trust that, in the eyes of those that care about them, this does not affect their view of who they are as a person, their value and worth. What was done says nothing about the victim and everything about the perpetrator.

    Well, that's my two cents worth again!

    BTW Sparkie, great post! A very balanced perspective with lots of wisdom in there.

  • crazyblondeb
    crazyblondeb

    I agree that if person has serious issues they should seek the appropriate help. To come here whinging then doing little or nothing about a problem is an exercise in futilty. As i told someone last night.

    I don't know who you are refering to, but I'll take it as possibly me. Although, I don't recall whining.

    I have had professional help, I have confronted my stepdad years ago. I actually got a freaking apology a couple years ago.

    The email that I recieved, I showed a couple people. I wanted an "outsiders" opinion on it, seeing how emotional, and pissed off I was at the time I recieved it. So, I'm composing a response now.

    I do aprreciate everyone's response on this subject. And I do mean everyone's. I know, for some, this isn't an easy subject. Like it has been mentioned, every person is different.......and their journey is unique.

    To everyone who has taken the time to respond, thank you.

    shelley

  • hillary_step
    hillary_step

    flipper,

    HILLARY STEP- You are still showing great disrespect for these people by using the term " the smell of infant sex" to describe what pedophiles enjoy in abusing others. Big Tex may have not been offended, but others who were molested as infants could totally be devastated by use of this term. I'm sure it does NOT bring back positive images for those who have suffered so much when young. I highly advise you to show more compassion and "emotional intelligence " before using terms such as this. Peace out, Mr. Flipper

    ...and now you are obscufating (as ever) ignoring all the major points that I have bought to your attention on this thread by trying to smokescreen the fact that it is yourself who is trivialising the suffering of child abuse survivors by playing amateur 'child abuse supporter' on this forum.

    You may find the term 'smell of infant sex', taken out of context of course (a cuddly club speciality) offensive, but the two abuse survivors who commented understood its use, so stand aside on this one Flipper because you are out of your depth here. This term describes exactly the type of animal one is dealing with and strangely enough is not a term of my making but was taken from: Pedophilia and Sexual Offending against Children Theory, Assessment, and Intervention by the American Psychological Association. I hope that this helps assuage your fears!

    In my first post I clearly outlined the difference between a person who abuses children and a pedophile. I also suggested that due to the fact that the file of 23,000 WTS abusers touted around the internet has never been validated and as such any speculation drawn from this figure as to how many 'pedophiles' exist within the congregations of Jehovah's Witnesses is irresponsible to say the least. Despite this, you continued your irresponsible use of the word 'pedophile' and chose to ignore what are facts! I replied in tougher terms so that you would cease and desist pretending that you actually knew what you were talking about.

    Shaking head....That you actually feel that you have served the cause of abuse survivors by the comments that you have made on this thread, shows, as Uzzah outlined, just what a deluded world you live in Flipper.

    The best way of 'supporting' child abuse victims is to grant them a measure of self-worth and dignity by offering LONG TERM SUPPORT, emotionally, physically and yes, even financially if need be and not by some pretense of being the Father Teresa, or the Columbo of JWD. This sort of support cannot be given on a discussion Board.

    This Board did not start the day that the 'cuddly club' arrived Flipper. It has been here for years. I have yet to see a subject discussed here the past five years that has not been discussed in much greater depth and with much more intelligent analysis in the past. As I suggested, use the search facility. All your answers are contained therein.

    As I have already suggested, do some real in depth research before you post on these subjects. I have at least forty books on the subject in my personal library. If you need recommendations, I would be glad to compile a bibliography.

    'Nuff said.

    HS

  • flipper
    flipper

    COGNIZANT DISSENDENT- I'm glad you were not offended by the remark. I was. I thought it was a very thoughtless term to use by him. Whatever. Yes- I understand what you are saying that those who have been abused need to describe in graphic terms to therapists, ie, professionals in private what happened to them ; but I don't think it was necessary for Hillary to use that graphic language on a public forum site, as it may have offended some here. Hillary is no expert either , just as much as I am not as well.

    CRAZYBLONDEB- I understand you were not whining . You went through therapy , and there has been a good amount of advice given on this thread. We will talk soon sometime.

    HILLARY STEP- YOU are the one that lives in a deluded world . You and Uzzah have no more experience in this subject than I do, yet you have the audacity to come on this thread and claim that you are all knowing on this subject. You are a pontificating windbag who thinks he is a lot smarter than everybody else, and your insecurity shows up that you have to verbally take differences with most everybody you come across on threads. You don't value anyone's opinion but your own , you are on a smear campaign towards anybody on this board trying to show support towards people who need it. I advise you in the future not to respond to any of my threads- as you will get no more responses from me to satisfy your mountainous Mt. Everest ego which you keep ignorantly putting out through your high and mighty, allegedly intelligent words. I see right through you. You are a classic BS artist who wants to manipulate people on this board. I'm done responding to you. Peace out, Mr.Flipper

  • fifi40
    fifi40

    And some poeple need to buy a mirror!!!!

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