UZZAH- Don't get your panties in a twist here. Did you drink too much coffee tonight ? I am not offering advice here, nor claiming to be a therapist. I am just asking advice from others to get opinions on ( see title of thread ) " How Can We Expose Child Abusers- Who Got Away with it as Witnesses ". Would you rather these victims of child abuse suffer in silence , and continue being abused ?? Perhaps it might bring a healing to some in time by confronting abusers who molested them years before ; rather than your old fashioned Neanderthal version of " lets bury it under the carpet. "
By the silencing of these abuse victims- this is HOW this crime continues to occur in not only Jehovah's Witnesses, but Catholics, Mormons, and other so-called " havens of protection " people seek to find comfort in. If some choose to be silent about what happened to them, fine. But don't come on here making light, or insulting me by helping them see another option. Who appointed you King Neptune of the sea ? Peace out, Mr. Flipper
How Can We Expose Child Abusers - Who Got Away with it as Witnesses ?
by flipper 115 Replies latest watchtower child-abuse
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flipper
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flipper
CRAZYBLONDEB- I hear ya sis ! I hope that a class action suit in time can be attained and joined in by the victims of Jehovah's Witnesses abusing them. If enough abuse victims get together to pursue this , it may happen.
HOMEROVAH- Thanks for the support. It is true. The perpetrators of these child abuse crimes are getting away with murder actually. Victims of child abuse have to live with this the rest of their lives , and inside some of them have already died in a way, either emotionally, mentally, or physically. I truly believe than any revealing of past grievous offenses by pedophila witnesses would be a good thing to expose the Watchtower society for what it really is - a protector of pedophiles ! And in time the victims would get justice - as opposed to doing nothing about it, and suffering in silence needlessly ! Peace out, Mr. Flipper -
Uzzah
Obviously I need to spell it out for you:
You are promoting the circumvention of most democratic countries' civil protection laws and want to humiliate and presume guilty individuals purely on someone's say so. Anonymously posting names is a smear campaign not confrontation.
Llbh was much nicer but PEOPLE LIE. Just because they are an exjw doesn't mean they are immediately trustworthy about anything just on the basis of being an ex. Just as being a JW doesn't automatically mean you are honest. There are sick and disturbed people in the ranks of the JW's and the act of leaving doesn't miraculously cure that! I've repeatedly seen on these boards that all one has to do is claim to be an exjw, cry about a custody hearing and immediately they are presumed to be the better parent. In some cases the JW is by far more stable.
There are thousands of abuse victims and survivors within and departed from the JW cult. Oh and to answer your earlier question the number you quoted is not just the US victims. Some with such accounts so sickening it would buckle the strongest man's knees. These people and tender hearts do need support and need to find their voice INDIVIDUALLY. This is usually based on professional advice.
You are actively promoting that confronting one's abuser is the best and more laudible approach thereby insulting those who, due to choice or recommended professional advice, have used other methods to recover from their abuse.
You are calling professional advice to 'remain silent' neanerthal (I'm am not the self proclaimed big foot expert - ahem) and this is based on what credentials you hold?
Congregational elders also used to force ...oops ... 'recommend' confrontation as part of their judicial hearings, are you agreeing with them that this is required? You presume much about the needs of the abused but they are too vulnerable a group to be used by you. Bill Bowen made the same mistake and alienated all those who remained silent for a multitude of personal reasons.
I have no real desire to get into a pissing match with you but I will say I have likely been an abuse survivor advocate longer than you have been reading your self help books. You are better off sticking with being Dear Abby than straying into this territory.
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nameless_one
I understand and appreciate the sentiment of this, but it is a can of worms that could very easily backfire. Publishing names of abusers without "official" documentation to back it up exposes the victims to legally pursuable liability. I'm not saying that it's right or fair, but something like this could end up with perpetrators successfully suing and re-victimizing their victims, or those acting on behalf of the victims.
If you are looking to compile a list of known abusers, I would suggest vetting the list via the public record. The very LAST thing you want is a situation that exposes victims to potential repercussions from their abusers via the legal system. And that is a very real possibility with publishing a list of names with no "official" record to back up the accusations. Whistle-blower documentation would apply here also -- verifiable documentation "leaked" from wherever -- but just a list of people publishing names and personal experiences ultimately exposes the victims to further assault from a legal standpoint.
I'm just saying, please be careful with this and make sure you fully understand how the system works, and how it can blow up in your face, because it can. A victim of rape/molestation/abuse having to pay restitution to their abuser is a sick and damaging scenario that could very easily result from this, if not handled properly. Please consult an attorney and/or other relevant professionals before pursuing this idea. -
cognizant dissident
Mr. Flipper
I appreciate that your intentions are good in this matter. However, I strongly agree with Uzzah's perception of the matter. Speaking as someone who was sexually abused as a child, and as someone who has physically and emotionally supported my closest friend through a confrontation of her JW rapist, the elders and the legal department of the WTBTS, you must tread with extreme caution when confronting abusers or alleged abusers.
The legal reasons are best left to lawyers to explain, however, I would like to speak to the potential emotional repercussions on the victim of untimely confrontations.
Confrontations of abusers rarely lead to confessions, apologies, compensation, or justice for the victims of this crime. These are what the victims most need and want, but invariably what they usually receive is a backlash of counterattacks, not just by the accused and his support system but often times by their own family, friends and the legal system. Sometimes these groups are one and the same for the accused is often a close relative of the victim. This response to confrontation can often push the victim of abuse into suicidal despair.
For this reason alone, confrontation should always be done at a time and place of the victims choosing and with a firm professional support network in place. Well meaning family and friends may want to push the matter ahead, thinking they are helping, but it is not their call to make. Support is best given on an individual basis and that support will look very different to different surviviors in different situations. There is no "one size fits all" solution that is best.
Some do choose to go the legal confrontation route as my friend did, (did she ever suffer for it!) Others, such as myself, choose to make our healing a personal and private journey. In either case, both she and I would be outraged, and feel re-victimized if any one else, no matter how close or well intentioned, decided to take it upon themselves to decide how we should best handle it. I chose not to share the details of my case even with my husband or parents or other family members. I was very angry when they did not respect that and tried to pry into details behind my back. My friend did share her story with many but is still angry to this day that some well meaning "supporters" pressured her to handle it their way instead of respecting her way to deal with it. What is best for the victim is very individual, and unless an individual victim asks you for a specific type of support, it would be best not to assume that "confrontation" would be a good thing. Many times it is not.
Sometimes, supporters have their own agendas surrounding the need to be supportive, that have nothing to do with the needs of the victims for support.
Cog
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james_woods
OK - so we do know that about 10 to 20 years ago the WTS had a list of around 23,000 known perpetrators. We are not sure if that is world-wide or just U.S.
Let me go a step further here - if we were to round that off to say 30,000 today, and if we accurately assume the JWs to have around four million actual regular & active members, how would that compare to the worldwide population as a statistic?
I could be totally wrong on this (and of course, our real eyewitness best authority - Barbara Anderson - has yet to post on it) - but what my sense of the matter would be is that the JWs probably do not actually have a disproportionate tendency to this perversion. In fact, I would say that there have only been a fairly statistically normal few of them who took advantage of the children in this way.
BUT - The basic horror of this is very simple - in a way very similar to the Catholic Church in the decades past, the Watchtower Society, acting as the control mechanism of all JWs (especially in the United States) saw fit to protect, hide, and disperse the known molesters among the innocent majority of witness families.
You only have to go as far as Leo Greenlees story, or just read the wishy-wimpy comments from the local elders in the very latest posted case - after they call the special pedophile desk at Brooklyn before notification of the authorities, to understand the depths of guilt that the Watchtower Society has heaped upon themselves in this sick way.
And the worst part of it is that there was never any reason to cover this up. Never. As the Catholics learned after the debacle with the priests and bishops - just try to come clean and take care of the problem on a case by case basis.
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flipper
UZZAH- I agree with you that individual professional therapy IS the best way generally speaking for people to get healing from child abuse . I was not the one that suggested initially posting names anonymously. Angahrad and DNTWNPHTG did. I am just getting suggestions here , Jesus. Yes, some victims of child abuse lie. But statistics have been shown in the past that most children claiming to be sexually abused are telling the truth. I am not actively saying and promoting that confronting one's abuser is the BEST way ! Other methods have proven to be better by therapy and counseling, I agree.
You are correct- many of these abuse victims have suffered years in silence at the hand of their abusers , and it is horrible ! I certainly am no expert- I never have claimed to be- but I DO care about these abuse victims getting proper professional help. I'm not trying to " use " anybody as you falsely claim. And I resent your derogatory false accusation that I'm " using " victims of abuse ! What I meant by saying it was "Neanderthal " in staying silent is this : For years it was customary for families where child abuse occurred to keep silent about the incest or abuse, and keep the families " dirty little secrets " in the closet ; thus children suffered in silence and their pleas for help were never heard by ANYBODY ! Some children were threatened with physical harm if they said anything, or were told they would be killed ! In today's more open society people are not keeping " dirty little secrets" in the closet - as the public is more aware of the need to EXPOSE child abuse, get it out in the open - so the victims have a voice to get REAL help. So, yes, I'm saying for a victim to suffer in silence permanently, and continue being molested , does a hell of a lot more damage than exposure !
NAMELESS ONE- I agree that publishing names would NOT be wise and open victims up to legal liability. I was NOT the one suggesting it. I'm not planning on doing anything - I'm just soliciting opinions here !
COGNIZANT DISSENDENT- I agree that emotional repercussions from untimely confrontations is NOT the wisest way to handle victims rights here. Individual professional therapy at the victims choosing is preferable by all means. It is the VICTIMS choice as to how to handle this. Not family and friends. I agree. I realize there is no " one size fits all " solution here. I'm reasonable enough to see that. I think we should just be there to show support for the victims in the way they individually need ! I'm just looking for suggestions here. Thanks for yours. Peace.
JAMES WOODS- Yes- The bad part about child abuse is as you stated , " The watchtower society saw fit to protect , hide, and disperse the known molesters among the innocent majority of witness familes ". And THAT is my big concern here. How to protect future victims ?? I don't see silence as being the answer. Exposure of some kind would be preferable -
Angharad
UZZAH- I agree with you that individual professional therapy IS the best way generally speaking for people to get healing from child abuse . I was not the one that suggested initially posting names anonymously. Angahrad and DNTWNPHTG did.
No, I didnt suggest naming names - I was quoting someone else who did, I wanted to make it clear that we would not allow it here.
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flipper
ANGHARAD- You are right. I stand corrected. My apologies. You were just quoting what another poster had suggested. I totally understand your point of not allowing that on this site
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Uzzah
yeah Ang, he was so busy back pedalling and blaming everyone else on his thread about 'how to expose child abusers who got away with it,' that he obviously didn't read the thread thoroughly.