How Can We Expose Child Abusers - Who Got Away with it as Witnesses ?

by flipper 115 Replies latest watchtower child-abuse

• 

  JK666

  HS & Uzzah,

  What are your professional credentials?

  Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm . . .

  JK
• 

  hillary_step

  Flipper,

  I am merely bringing attention to the child abuse problem and asking others on ways to expose these pedophiles

  Yes, I understand this, and I am merely suggesting that it would be wiser to learn much more about the subject before you even attempt to deal with 'exposing these pedophiles'.

  A good start is actually finding out the difference between an abuser of children and pedophile so that you best understand which direction you need to move in. There are numerous cases of those who have sexually abused children and who do so once, and never abuse again. These people are opportunists looking for gratification at the expense of the first available and easily manipulated person who crosses their paths. If it is a child, well who cares as long as they get relief. They may also sexually abuse numerous times, but are not defined as pedophiles.

  Then there are pedophiles, who are a completely different animal. They are predators, and the hunt itself is exciting to them. Unlike the opportunist they plan, deceive with an astonishing cunning, fantasize and cannot function properly without the smell of infant sex in their nostrils. They are as addicted to the perverted desire for children as are the most addicted Crack addict you might imagine, and of course, not all of them are male. Sometimes the female works in conjunction with the male as the 'soft' entry to a childs confidence, other times it is vica versa.

  This is a very, very simple summation of what is a very, very complex issue. Tinkering with such issues in a spirit of well-meaning ignorance will only lead to tears.

  What we are discussing here has been discussed at very great length, including the whole subject of how to 'out' a child abuser, or a pedophile, at great length on this Board. My suggestion is to spend a little time trawling the search function. I am sure what you are looking for is already there.

  Cheers - HS
• 

  Big Tex

  The post just above this one gives you the reason for the thread.

  He's trying to help me.

  I read your first post on this thread. My heart goes out to you.

  I first met Kim 6 years ago. We had lunch and I was able to help her just a tiny bit (really very little, not as much as I'd like) with a local situation. She told me that the statute of limitations had long since run out on me, which I already knew. My abuse took place in the mid-60's in the Ozarks, even before we were part of That Sect. I felt bad, and almost apologized to her. Having already been through what I had, if there were any legal way I would have had no hesitancy whatsoever to go to court, stand trial and have a Viking funeral with Jehovah's Witnesses. But then I'd already been through hell 3 times, what did one more matter? In retrospect, I think things worked out as they should have.

  Having said that ... Shelley let me urge you to let go; let yourself handle yourself. You will find nothing amongst That Sect but pain and heartache. If I know nothing else, I know that. Your answers will not be found there. If you got an apology, then I envy you. I got hatred.

  If you are like me, your grandest, most fragile hope is for your father to fall on his knees, say he was sorry and tell you he loved you. I hope you get that, I truly do. But the odds ... aren't good. Please know that nothing and no one, not God himself, can change what horrors happened to you. At this point the road to recovery of sanity lies, not with changing what happened, but changing how you feel about what happened. A subtle but very important difference.

  I think you're doing that actually, else you would not even be where you are now. Believe it or not, I do believe there is a time and place for confrontation. But confrontation of the Offender must be done at the very end of recovery. It should be when you are in a safe place, physically, emotionally and spiritually. The confrontation is the closing of the door. Not out of anger, but out of recognition the the Offender was crazy, evil and twisted in hurting you. 99.9999% of offenders never make any effort to reconcile with their victims. My personal belief is because the act of abuse rips the soul, both of the offender and of the victim. It is the offender who lacks the courage, and love, to heal as (at this point) the victim has transformed into a survivor; scarred, but alive and as whole as possible.

  Shelley what I really hear from you is that frustrated sense of anger, an impotence at finding resolution. I submit to you, that YOU have what you need, not your father. Confronting him will not give you what you need, but will give you what you are used to. You don't deserve that. You are a strong, wonderful and beautiful soul to have lived through what you have.

  Forgive me, I'm not trained prorfessionally, I only speak from the heart and experience.

  Chris, I do appreciate your posts!! I don't post, but do read alot on lambsroar!! Thank you for that board!!

  You're very welcome. I'm afraid that board may have died however. I haven't been able to access it the past couple of days so I don't know what's happened.

  I'm very proud of Lambsroar and very proud to be a very small part of helping a handful of people.

  Lambsroar has been ignored, reviled and blackballed by Bill Bowen. He has threatened anyone who gives information that ends up on Lambsroar with being permanently shunned and/or cut out whatever little movement he's a part of. I've been told many things in confidence over the years with the proviso that I do not post anything on LambsRoar. I have never broken my word despite my contempt toward Bowen's actions and threats.

  Forgive me, as I've never said anything online anywhere before, but if that board is indeed gone I felt it was only fair and time to say something. It's not much, but it's something. Not that anyone gives a damn.

  Now look at me, talking about the past after I told you to move forward. See what I mean about the past creating scars no one sees?

  Chris
• 

  hillary_step

  JK666,

  What are your professional credentials?

  One does not need 'professional credentials' to warn those without 'professional credentials' that they should be beware of offering advice or 'support' to those who require 'professional help'. You are actually reinforcing our point, though you choose to attack it! Your foot must be full of holes these days.

  That you do not understand the principles involved here JK666, is not a suprise I am sad to say.

  It may be unknown to you, but Uzzah spent many years within WTS Legal and is privy to numerous cases of child sexual abuse and how the WTS handles them. He also 'appeared' on a documentary on the subject that was televised all across North America some years ago.

  Despite this, he would be the last person, recognizing the folly of doing so, to try to offer help outside his own professional credentials. He made this plain above, and so do I, so please, rather than react from the hurt feelings that you are dragging around from thread to thread like a decomposing Alabatross these days, just read his posts and think about them carefully before replying. Your frequent wanderings from reason just clutter up the Board.

  HS
• 

  Big Tex

  My motives for putting this information out there , is to get opinions from everyone, ( thank you for yours) so as to have an interchange of thoughts, either by people who have been through it, or had family members abused , or those who knew of people abused , just to throw ideas out there for people to choose options that are discussed. I certainly don't claim to have the answers - that's why I asked the question " How can we expose Child Abusers ? " So I'm putting this out to you all .

  It's okay, and I'm cool with where you're coming from. And thank you for your kind words. That was a long time ago, you know?

  And I think communicating about it and discussing it might just open some doors and ideas for people to consider, that's all.

  It might, and so I posted what I did. My motivation was to help anyone avoid what I went through. In many ways it was worse than the original event, if you take my meaning.

  This is a complex subject, involving behaviors operating on many levels. I wish it were was easy as running to the platform in a Kingdom Hall and announcing who the sexual offender is. I really do. Frankly if I'd done that, the congregation would have either burst out in laughter or thrown things at me. Actually I think they'd have burned me at the stake if they could've gotten away with it. Fortunately I don't weigh the same as a duck.

  I'm not using anybody to do anything here.

  I believe you. I wanted to honest and frank in my opinion. As I say, it's all good.

  Chris
• 

  nvrgnbk

  All of the cases of pedophilia that I dealt with as an elder involved adolescent boys abusing their siblings or other children in the community.

  In most cases, these boys themselves had been sexually abused.

  I am NOT saying that there are not adult males in positions of responsibility in the congregation that have abused.

  I'm just suggesting that many of the cases are incestuous, a societal problem, nothing unique to the WTBTS.

  As for the 23,000 figure, is that cases of abuse or the number of pedophiles?

  To illustrate how problematic this is, I know of a case of a guy that received oral sex from a seventeen-year-old girl when he was nineteen. He was considered by the elders handling his case to be a pedophile.

  It's dishonest to suggest to the public that if they become Witnesses their children will likely be raped by elders.

  It is honest to suggest to the public that when cases of child abuse have occurred within the religion, HQ has been more concerned with PR than the welfare of individual children.

  They now do what they can to comply with the law.

  I know that from experience.

  Too little, too late?

  Without a doubt.

  Any consolation to the victims?

  I doubt it.

  If we're not careful how we deal with this subject, we can lose credibility with lurking Witnesses, IMO.
• 

  flipper

  AROARER- I am glad that your case was able to garnish attention on Dateline and in the press. It is disconcerting though at the horrific treatment you received from the witnesses, even after the abuser was convicted of the crime. It goes to show as you say, that " blood is thicker than water ", as you mentioned many of these abusers are related to prominent members in the witnesses. I hope you have been able to get some healing.
  
  JK- Yep. You guessed it- they have no credentials like the rest of us.
  
  HIllARY STEP- Interesting take.
  
  BIG TEX- Thanks for your comments. I hope you have gotten some healing over the years and have been able to regain a measure of some peace in your life.
  
  NVR- The 23,000 was the number of pedophiles in the societies database file. I agree that this subject has to be dealt with in a careful manner as I have stated on this thread already. The point AROARER made is very valid that you make here that a lot of cases are incestuous; which brings up another problem that AROARER stated - the covering over by elders of family members abusing sexually other family members. Because witnesses only associate within themselves - it causes more incidents of close contact between people. In more ways than one
• 

  Homerovah the Almighty

  To all those people that oppose taking any kind of action of any kind congratulations you just made yourself a good friend to the

  many accused and unaccused pedophiles strewn across the kingdom halls in the world.

  I guess social injustice doesn't mean as much to some people as others.......sad really

  Satan does work in mysterious ways after all
• 

  hillary_step

  Homerovah,

  To all those people that oppose taking any kind of action of any kind congratulations you just made yourself a good friend to the many accused and unaccused pedophiles strewn across the kingdom halls in the world. I guess social injustice doesn't mean as much to some people as others.......sad really Satan does work in mysterious ways after all

  Mmmmm. I am not sure that you have actually read the posts of those that you criticize with much care. No poster whose comments I have read on this thread 'oppose taking any kind of action'. What they are suggesting is that the matter be left in the hands of the professionals - the police, the therapists, the psychiatrists, the lawyers, the professional counsellors and not in the hands of well meaning bulls in a very fragile china shop. I have known many XJW abuse survivors actually suffer tragically at the hands of amateurs seeking personal glory. The post by Big Tex above should clue you in. So rather than do what the WTS itself does and handle these problems 'in house', contact the authorities. There are numerous departments in every city that are structured to deal with exactly the problems that are being discussed here. Many years ago I was threatened with disfellowshipping by the Branch in a European city when I told them that irregardless of their 'professional' methods, I would contact the authorities regarding a MS who was abusing his daughter. Their threats made no difference to my actions and though this person skipped the country to avoid arrest, not only was an arrest order made, but his daughter gained protection and professional help. This was years ago in the late 70's, before exposing WTS child abusers became the flavor of the month. This was one of a number of experiences that I had dealing with child abuse issues as a JW, the last one being when I saw an elder to a four year sentence for abusing his daughter and her little friend. Each time I was involved in such cases I had to fight the WTS system by using the correct secular system. It was a tough. This is why I find your comments rather shallow . To conclude that a person urging others to go about such matters through the proper channels is uncaring of 'social justice' is actually offensive. HS
• 

  watson

  Thanks for taking a stab at the issue Flipper. Very interesting read. Some very good points made here. My heart goes out to the victims.