by flipper 115 Replies latest watchtower child-abuse
I feel I need to step in here. Mr. Flipper is as frustrated as I am. He's just try to help me.
I told earlier what happened to me. It pisses me off that nothing can be done with my step dad. I know there's not a way i'll ever see justice.
But don't come down on Mr. Flipper so hard. This thread was started out of love and concern.
shelley
I have had therapy. I encourage any "victim", or anyone that has had this touch their live to seek professional help.
This is just a thread helping a friend.
Uzzah,
This is a perfect example of self appointed therapists and do-gooders potentially causing more harm than good.
Flipper: Are you personally prepared to pay for the therapy that is likely going to be needed after a 'recommended' confrontation? Each person with the help of PROFESSIONALS need to determine best measures for them to deal with their abuse. Some lambs CHOSE to be silent rather than reliving the abuse in the form of a suit or confrontation.
Your naive recommendation about exposing "alleged' pedophiles is just plain dumb legally and ethically regardless how well intentioned. There are plenty of professional sites in existence to expose tried and sentenced.
Obviously more self help books and episodes of Dr. Phil are needed.
Go crazy offering your version of 'support' but for your and more importantly the safety of vulnerable ones, stay away from therapy and giving advice on that which you have no credentials.
Well said! Could you couch your language so that it is less direct and more cuddly though? That way you might stand a chance of being misinterpreted, which as we all know is fodder to tickled ears. Seriously, the dangers of professional ideas launched by amateur minds in such situations should never be underestimated. HS
yeah Ang, he was so busy back pedalling and blaming everyone else on his thread about 'how to expose child abusers who got away with it,' that he obviously didn't read the thread thoroughly.
I don't think there is any need to be unpleasent about it Uzzah. It was a mistake, I just wanted to clarify. Acutally its my fault also because I noticed after that the quote box hadn't worked properly.
Flipper
I don't know you well, so I will, for now, give you the best of motives. I am wondering what your motivation is with this thread. And I mean that sincerely.
You do realize that all the saber rattling in the world isn't going to change a weird little sect's thinking. Oh they may put on a good face to the media but behind closed doors it will be business as usual. Much like any dysfunctional family.
I read your initial post as very naive. God bless you while your heart may be in the right place but you don't know what you're talking about, or at least you don't understand some very real and painful dynamics that are in play regarding chid abuse and then the Witnesses' response to accusations.
Confrontations of abusers rarely lead to confessions, apologies, compensation, or justice for the victims of this crime. These are what the victims most need and want, but invariably what they usually receive is a backlash of counterattacks, not just by the accused and his support system but often times by their own family, friends and the legal system. Sometimes these groups are one and the same for the accused is often a close relative of the victim. This response to confrontation can often push the victim of abuse into suicidal despair.
CD, I cannot agree with you more. I lived it.
Flipper I am a survivor of (God to this day I don't know how many) 2/3/4+ abusers that stopped when I was 5 years old. I tried telling a few people but no one wanted to get involved, so I buried it deep down. Then when I was 9, I became a JW. A year later my parents did as well. But the Society's easy answers, over time, did not solve what was wrong inside me. At 23 I became suicidal; at 24 I completely broke down and was hospitalized.
Naturally Jehovah's Witnesses wanted no part of this as my parents were "faithful". I couldn't bear it any longer and so March 20, 1988 (yes I really do remember the exact date; I can even tell you the weather, what they wore, etc.) I confronted my parents, two evil and twisted people.
The result? I was shunned by the entire White Rock congregation in Dallas, Texas. People I had known for 10, 15 years, including my best friend, refused to talk to me. I was never reproved, disfellowshipped, disassociated, etc. But I was completely shut off and shut out and not just my congregation, hell not just my CIRCUIT but the entire District #9 as well as a few congregations in Tarrant County (next to Dallas).
That is how far the story spread, and how I was punished. My crime was simply confronting my parents, my Jehovah's Witnesses parents and my Ministerial Servant father.
It blew me away and what little progress I had made for 3 years was wiped out and I was hanging on by my fingernails. It took 13 years before I really got over that confrontation and the repercussion I felt.
Flipper, we are not going to change Jehovah's Witnesses. Like death and taxes, they are what they are, and all we can do is get out, restore sanity and help others who want to leave. But even if we could change them, what about other quasi-cults? What about those polygamist cults in Utah, Arizona and Texas? Child abuse runs rampant there? What about them? What about the Catholics? And if it happens there, what about the Protestants?
See activisim has its time and place. Using people who have already been hideously tormented, permantently scarred in ways no one knows is just not a good idea.
Be well,
Chris
Flipper,
Pedophiles : 23,000 this would be 2.3 percent of witnesses in the United States . Breaking the figures down it comes out to 5 pedophiles per every 233 witnesses , broken down further: 2 to 3 pedophiles per every 116 witnesses. THAT is pretty scary if these figures are just U . S. figures. Now, if the 23,000 pedophiles are the worldwide total among the 6,000,000 Jehovah's Witnesses here is how it shakes down : 23,000 pedophiles would be about .04 percent of witnesses worldwide. Breaking the figures down it comes to 2 pedophiles per every 1,420 witnesses or 1 pedophile per every 720 witnesses . Even at those figures at any given district convention you'd have to figure there are at least 2 to 5 pedophiles in attendance ! And considering each pedophile molests multiple children in their twisted crimes , it gives cause for concern.
Your premises are based on a figure that has never been officially validated, so it is of little use speculating. If 23,000 files exist, some of these may actually pertain to one person committing a number of different crimes, so trying to drain statistics from this unvalidated figure is pointless.
You also need to understand that not every person who abuses a child sexually is a pedophile. Pedophlia is a defined disease of the mind. The majority of abusers are opportunists who do not fall into this specialized category.
Before you launch into this very sensitive arena with well meaning but misguided motives, you should dignify survivors by spending a few intense months researching the subject thoroughly.
HS
Chris,
Our posts crossed, but I was going to advice that Flipper and the club talk to you as you know from bitter experience far too much about the subject, but thought the better of it.
Thank you for posting. Your post is illuminating and touching, as ever.
Flipper, listen to the man.
HS
Flipper
I don't know you well, so I will, for now, give you the best of motives. I am wondering what your motivation is with this thread. And I mean that sincerely.
The post just above this one gives you the reason for the thread.
He's trying to help me.
shelley
Chris, I do appreciate your posts!! I don't post, but do read alot on lambsroar!! Thank you for that board!!
CRAZYBLONDEB- I do value you as a friend . I am glad you did get help and therapy. Thanks for the acknowledgement of my " good motives " here. I just wanted to make people aware of the problem and get opinions on how to handle it.
HILLARY STEP- I am not trying to launch " professional ideas " as you mistakenly state. I am merely bringing attention to the child abuse problem and asking others on ways to expose these pedophiles . I have never claimed to be a licensed therapist - but I am a caring person who offers friendship to people who really need it. I'm sure you can understand that. And for that - I make no apologies
BIG TEX- I am very sorry you were abused . I am sorry you were maligned by this hateful cult in this unforgiveable way. My motives for putting this information out there , is to get opinions from everyone, ( thank you for yours) so as to have an interchange of thoughts, either by people who have been through it, or had family members abused , or those who knew of people abused , just to throw ideas out there for people to choose options that are discussed. I certainly don't claim to have the answers - that's why I asked the question " How can we expose Child Abusers ? " So I'm putting this out to you all .
And yes, my main motive is I care that people were hurt. And I think communicating about it and discussing it might just open some doors and ideas for people to consider, that's all. The experienceI shared in my opening paragraph about the man standing up in the congregation- was just an experience that really happened. Not saying it was the best way he accomplished what he did - but it did bring the abuser to justice after 30 years of hiding is child abuse. I agree that professional counseling is the best way for a person to get healing. I hope you are healing my friend. I'm not using anybody to do anything here. Just approaching a subject
Hi all, I stop in every now and then to see what's going on in the Witchtower Babble & Trick Suicidity and seeing this thread sparked an interest since I can totally relate to this topic.
The problem with the leadership of the WT is that it is bent on covering up the whole problem of pedophilia by lying, and denying, and blaming those who want to expose their molesters. The reason they are able to do this is because most of the leadership are in some way or another interrelated with the pedophiles through congregations and families. In my own personal experience, our daughter was molested by her grandfather over a period of years from her babyhood to her pre adolesance. He was also molesting countless other victims in his family and in other congregations in his circuit over a period of years. Family members who had been molested by him denied and kept silent and went on to other congregations with their secret. Some where cousins, and aunts of my daughter, others were in laws of the perpetrator, others were nieces and nephews of the perpetrator. Many were elders, or married to elders. All the family members were co-dependant of the molester and turned on us and our daughter for exposing him. We took it to the courts and he was exposed as a predator. Some JW victims came to testify in behalf of our daughter to say he had molested them also. But the family members who were elders and related to elders all hid the truth and lied in his behalf. Our story gained publicity on Dateline and in the press. And even after that the WT continued to deny those who spoke out, and protected him. He continues to be protected by JW family members and we were disfellowshipped along with Barbara Anderson and Bill Bowen for speaking out. The whole pedophile thing within the WT is so unlike the Catholic Church because of the incestuous nature that is connected to the families in the WT. As long as families are interrealted and intermarrying within this religious community, there will always be pedophilia kept secret to protect family members.
ARoarer
