Is it the JW's or the God of the bible you no longer believe? (page 13)

reniaa

hey isaacaustin, your right is is according to conscience and since my main objections to christmas is not it's pagan origins but that i think it has become worshiped i'll stand by my viewpoint, it is as you say a personal thing.

Who decides what is a gnat or a camel Reniaa? And regarding what you posted as to the pagan origin of the tree that is very debatable.
So, I again ask for a clear cut, direct answer as to where the bible clearly says to ro shows one to abstain from Christmas, or birthdays?
I have shown you Romans 14 which deals extensively with the use of one's own conscience and not to judge others based on their observance of days. This would directly seem to rule out the practice of disfellowshipping due to one's celebrating of a day.
If you want to apply the pagan origin rule you must do it blanketly and consistently- not only to what the Wt calls a bigger issue.

Like i said the bible doesn't mention christmas at all! but absence does not imply acceptance as I think your trying to prove, otherwise we could apply that to any amount of weird and wonderful things! We have principles that can be held against any given practise and use our judgement against them.

If I viewed christmas as just a day, I would agree with your next statement but I don't! I think christmas is a form of worship and gone well beyond the simple expression of just observing as a day. So beyond that I can't really comment as I don't agree with your statement.

Your last statement is interesting because of all christian faiths, I would say Jw's have tried to be consistent in applying rules and I would say get the most criticism for over-blanketing rules, and if they to get to a point were some gnats have to get through well it will happen! if I was in charge I would loosen some of the heavily applied ones but christmas wouldn't be one of them :)

OnTheWayOut

Who decides what is a gnat or a camel Reniaa?

Great question. Reniaa, your earlier comments about "sin" show that you are
still applying your judgment to others. Let others do what they want and don't consider
it a sin if it is in their consenting adults lifestyle. If you don't like Christmas and see
it as pagan, fine and dandy. It is. But if others see value in the Peace-on-earth and
gift-giving and honoring-the-son, well- don't judge them.

Some may apply more of the Bible in their lives than others. Good for them, good for
the others.

If others want to have consenting sexual relations with others, it's their life. You don't
have to hang around with them because your lifestyle and theirs are so vastly different,
but we don't have to form a lynch mob or a stoning party or have a heterosexual-married-
people-only-can-have-sex-rally.

The biggest thing I think that former JW's (or current JW's) have to overcome is their
attitude about judging the "world" and everything different from them.

reniaa

hi junction guy

So if you don't want to celebrate christmas, then fine that is your choice, no one should force you to celebrate it. You are an adult and free to make your own choices. I do feel compassion towards your kids (if you have any) for they may never get to experience the joy of Christmas.

I do have kids but don't feel compassion for them they get love, parties and plenty of joy in their lifes, you'd be better off saving it for the children born in the 4/5 of this planet that are poor and get no joy at christmas not because they don't believe it but because they can't afford it.

Mary

So Reniaa....Do you or do you not have a rebuttal for the issues I raised? Do you have anything beyond your own personal opinion?

No? Didn't think so.

jgnat

Children rich or poor love ritual. It's a constant in an uncertain world. It's my granddaughter who is most excited about our Canadian thanksgiving this coming Monday. She asked me if we would be playing that same card game we have brought out for two thanksgivings previous. Children watch and remember and these annual dates help them solidify those warm family memories forever.

jgnat

Here's a Jewish ritual that is rich with meaning. It's called the feast of the First Fruits. Why aren't we following this bible based ritual today?

http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/408049/jewish/Seven-Fruits-of-the-Soul.htm

http://www.followtherabbi.com/Brix?pageID=1641

reniaa

Who decides what is a gnat or a camel Reniaa?
Great question. Reniaa, your earlier comments about "sin" show that you are
still applying your judgment to others. Let others do what they want and don't consider
it a sin if it is in their consenting adults lifestyle. If you don't like Christmas and see
it as pagan, fine and dandy. It is. But if others see value in the Peace-on-earth and
gift-giving and honoring-the-son, well- don't judge them.
Some may apply more of the Bible in their lives than others. Good for them, good for
the others.
If others want to have consenting sexual relations with others, it's their life. You don't
have to hang around with them because your lifestyle and theirs are so vastly different,
but we don't have to form a lynch mob or a stoning party or have a heterosexual-married-
people-only-can-have-sex-rally.
The biggest thing I think that former JW's (or current JW's) have to overcome is their
attitude about judging the "world" and everything different from them.

Thankyou onethewayout for this, it takes me back to my original point, on how much or how little and in what way we apply the bible, and if leaving JW's also means leaving behind the bible, maybe the biggest point is not that you leave the bible but how you view it changes when you leave JW's.

DoomVoyager

Reniaa: you have decided that wedding rings are a "gnat", and therefore wearing them is ok.

The serpent-god Ouroboros, who continually devours his own tail, represents eternity, infinity, and things cyclical in nature. The wearing of a ring symbolizing Ouroboros amounts to worship, or at the very least, glorification of Ouroboros; an appeal to the Entity to bless ones marriage with eternity. Similarly, the mounting of a ring to the sword of a warrior was an appeal to Ouroboros to bestow infinite life in battle to the sword-bearer.

Your unsupported assertions that celebrating Christmas amounts to worship of false gods pale in the face of the serpent-worship inherent in the giving and wearing of wedding rings. It is clear that Christmas is the gnat; wedding rings are the camel.

And as a concluding thought; "he who is faithful in what is least is faithful also in much".

alt

isaacaustin

I personally look to the Bible for answers...as opposed to the WT. I look to the Bible itself to answer questions raised, as opposed to WT lit. So my view of the Bible has deepened since losing the WT blinders.

reniaa

Here's a Jewish ritual that is rich with meaning. It's called the feast of the First Fruits. Why aren't we following this bible based ritual today?
http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/408049/jewish/Seven-Fruits-of-the-Soul.htm
http://www.followtherabbi.com/Brix?pageID=1641

Hiya jgnat :) i think the simple answer is that we are no longer under the law of the jews so don't observe the festivals that go with it, or circimcism either hehe one I bet the men might be glad of if they come to christianity later in life :)

Is it the JW's or the God of the bible you no longer believe?

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