All this is great fodder but just like the two parties of the us election, no one here is going to change their mind and switch sides.
Is it the JW's or the God of the bible you no longer believe?
by reniaa 407 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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isaacaustin
8 Formerly, when you did not know God, you were slaves to those who by nature are not gods. 9 But now that you know God—or rather are known by God—how is it that you are turning back to those weak and miserable principles? Do you wish to be enslaved by them all over again? 10 You are observing special days and months and seasons and years! 11 I fear for you, that somehow I have wasted my efforts on you.
why would paul caution them on this?
Reniaa,
Read the whole chapter of galatians and you tell me. The Galatians weretrying to keep to the Old covenant- mixing the grace of God with salvation by works of the Law. Absolutely nothing here about celebrating holdiay being wrong. He is not even saying observing these days and months and seasons is wrong. What is he saying? He is saying that if they are going to pin their slavation on following the Law and judge others in this way they are obligating themselves to follow the ENTIRE Law.
The unevenly yoked is simply strawman logic.
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mrsjones5
Galatians 3
Faith or Observance of the Law
1 You foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? Before your very eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed as crucified. 2 I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by observing the law, or by believing what you heard? 3 Are you so foolish? After beginning with the Spirit, are you now trying to attain your goal by human effort? 4 Have you suffered so much for nothing—if it really was for nothing? 5 Does God give you his Spirit and work miracles among you because you observe the law, or because you believe what you heard?6 Consider Abraham: "He believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness." [a] 7 Understand, then, that those who believe are children of Abraham. 8 The Scripture foresaw that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, and announced the gospel in advance to Abraham: "All nations will be blessed through you." [b] 9 So those who have faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith.
10 All who rely on observing the law are under a curse, for it is written: "Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law." [c] 11 Clearly no one is justified before God by the law, because, "The righteous will live by faith." [d] 12 The law is not based on faith; on the contrary, "The man who does these things will live by them." [e] 13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: "Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree." [f] 14 He redeemed us in order that the blessing given to Abraham might come to the Gentiles through Christ Jesus, so that by faith we might receive the promise of the Spirit.
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mrsjones5
the whole chapter:
Galatians 4
1 What I am saying is that as long as the heir is a child, he is no different from a slave, although he owns the whole estate. 2 He is subject to guardians and trustees until the time set by his father. 3 So also, when we were children, we were in slavery under the basic principles of the world. 4 But when the time had fully come, God sent his Son, born of a woman, born under law, 5 to redeem those under law, that we might receive the full rights of sons. 6 Because you are sons, God sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, the Spirit who calls out, "Abba, [a] Father." 7 So you are no longer a slave, but a son; and since you are a son, God has made you also an heir.
Paul's Concern for the Galatians
8 Formerly, when you did not know God, you were slaves to those who by nature are not gods. 9 But now that you know God—or rather are known by God—how is it that you are turning back to those weak and miserable principles? Do you wish to be enslaved by them all over again? 10 You are observing special days and months and seasons and years! 11 I fear for you, that somehow I have wasted my efforts on you.12 I plead with you, brothers, become like me, for I became like you. You have done me no wrong. 13 As you know, it was because of an illness that I first preached the gospel to you. 14 Even though my illness was a trial to you, you did not treat me with contempt or scorn. Instead, you welcomed me as if I were an angel of God, as if I were Christ Jesus himself. 15 What has happened to all your joy? I can testify that, if you could have done so, you would have torn out your eyes and given them to me. 16 Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth?
17 Those people are zealous to win you over, but for no good. What they want is to alienate you from us, so that you may be zealous for them. 18 It is fine to be zealous, provided the purpose is good, and to be so always and not just when I am with you. 19 My dear children, for whom I am again in the pains of childbirth until Christ is formed in you, 20 how I wish I could be with you now and change my tone, because I am perplexed about you!
Hagar and Sarah
21 Tell me, you who want to be under the law, are you not aware of what the law says? 22 For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by the slave woman and the other by the free woman. 23 His son by the slave woman was born in the ordinary way; but his son by the free woman was born as the result of a promise.24 These things may be taken figuratively, for the women represent two covenants. One covenant is from Mount Sinai and bears children who are to be slaves: This is Hagar. 25 Now Hagar stands for Mount Sinai in Arabia and corresponds to the present city of Jerusalem, because she is in slavery with her children. 26 But the Jerusalem that is above is free, and she is our mother. 27 For it is written:
"Be glad, O barren woman,
who bears no children;
break forth and cry aloud,
you who have no labor pains;
because more are the children of the desolate woman
than of her who has a husband." [b]28 Now you, brothers, like Isaac, are children of promise. 29 At that time the son born in the ordinary way persecuted the son born by the power of the Spirit. It is the same now. 30 But what does the Scripture say? "Get rid of the slave woman and her son, for the slave woman's son will never share in the inheritance with the free woman's son." [c] 31 Therefore, brothers, we are not children of the slave woman, but of the free woman.
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isaacaustin
Lets put galatians back into context Reniaa:
beginning in verse 1:
Now I say, [That] the heir, as long as he is a child, differeth nothing from a servant, though he be lord of all; Gal 4:2 But is under tutors and governors until the time appointed of the father.
Gal 4:3 Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world: Gal 4:4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law, Gal 4:5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons. Gal 4:6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father. Gal 4:7 Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ. Gal 4:8 ¶ Howbeit then, when ye knew not God, ye did service unto them which by nature are no gods. Gal 4:9 But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage? Gal 4:10 Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years. Gal 4:11 I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain.
verses 1-3 clearly show Paul is dicussing man under the law- before Chrsit set us free. 4-7 show that they had accepted Christ, 9-11 show this was only to turn back to the Law..perverting the Gospel by mixing works of the law with grace. Obviously not cautioning on holidays
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isaacaustin
LOL MsJones- great minds think alike...we posted in unison
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reniaa
Hi isaacaustin and mrsjones this is a contraversial scripture as no one can be 100% which days months and years hes refering too, some say its jewish days but others say since galations was pagan lol it was refering to pagan feasts and suchlike. Opinion is mixed on it. So its one all reading must draw there own conclusions from reading in context.
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OUTLAW
Reniaa..Why only post one part of the sentence from Luke chapter 2 verse 14?.....Are you afraid of what the Bible says?.....Are you afraid it will tear your Tissue of Lies to Shreds?.........One more time I will help you!..You seem to need all the help you can get!!..LOL!!................This is from The Bible in Living English..Good Lord!!..It`s Published by the WBT$!!..LOL!!......Starting in Luke chapter 2 verse 13..The sentence ends in verse 15......And all of a sudden there was with the Angel a multitude of the heavenly host Praising God and saying "GLORY on high to God and on earth peace among men and grace."..............Why did you stop at "Praising" Reniaa??..Why did`nt you read the whole sentence??!!..Why?..Because you are a very Deceitful Person!..It didn`t fit in with your Argument!..So you decided to ignore what is written in the Bible,as usual!!..Lets see what the Dictionary says about the word "Glory"..Glory:(verb)to REJOICE PROUDLY:EXULT........Good heavens Rennia! The word Glory,means to Rejoice Proudly!......No wonder you didn`t want to show this Forum,the entire sentence from the Bible.......You have once again shown yourself to be a Decietul,Misleading..Liar!..You said I was misleading..The Bible proved you wrong..You Lied..Again!!..And..You used Seven Bibles to do it!!!!LOL!!............................
...OUTLAW -
jgnat
,,,but...but...the Jewish festivals, as recorded in the bible, followed springtime and harvest, too. And they were laid out by God and endorsed by God. Maybe God doesn't care about "pagan roots".
I see the origin of Mother's Day is not at all certain, and is on different days for different reasons around the world. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mothers_day Not so necessarily pagan.
As you properly note, Father's day has no pagan roots.
I don't think you are a bible follower at all, reniaa. You follow men - the Watchtower - and interpret the bible with that peculiar slant. You decide what is iron-clad and what is controversial, based on pre-concieved doctrines from the society. I'm sorry the bible doesn't allow all your beliefs to be tied in to a pretty bow, but the bible is like that. It is not nearly as neat and orderly as the society itself.
Interesting that you would call yourself Arian. The Witness I studied with firmly denied that the JW's are Arain.
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reniaa
wouldn't be so sure about that. Look at Paul in these verses:
Rom 7:15
For what I am doing, I do not understand; for I am not practicing what I would like to do, but I am doing the very thing I hate.Rom 7:18 For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh; for the willing is present in me, but the doing of the good is not. 19 For the good that I want, I do not do, but I practice the very evil that I do not want .
This wasn't Paul "before Jesus". Again look at:
Rom 7:24
Wretched man that I am! Who will set me free from the body of this death?Remember all this is Paul after his conversion.
Now look at what Paul says to do about the flesh:
Rom 6:11
Even so consider yourselves to be dead to sin , but alive to God in Christ Jesus.Rom 8:13 for if you are living according to the flesh, you must die; but if by the Spirit you are putting to death the deeds of the body, you will live.
I would ask you to show me where Paul says to: strive "against the flesh".
I have definite fellow feeling with romans 7:18 it could have been written for me.
all those scriptures in romans I agree with, and to me they speak of not giving into sin, you know lutherians wouldn't have happened if the catholic church in its wisdom hadn't started selling future pardons! like buying tickets to a ball game but in this case tickets to a future sin so you were already forgiven before you did it, How nuts is that? now back to what you ask me,
hmmm i wonder if i was thinking of thorn in his flesh...
2 Corinthians 12:6-8 (New International Version)
6 Even if I should choose to boast, I would not be a fool, because I would be speaking the truth. But I refrain, so no one will think more of me than is warranted by what I do or say.
7 To keep me from becoming conceited because of these surpassingly great revelations, there was given me a thorn in my flesh, a messenger of Satan, to torment me. 8 Three times I pleaded with the Lord to take it away from me
anyway your scriptures say it better than mine and i enjoyed checking them all out. thankyou deputy dog
...OUTLAW