Is it the JW's or the God of the bible you no longer believe?

by reniaa 407 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • isaacaustin
    isaacaustin

    ps mother's day does have pagan roots, father's day was just a 20th century addition to mother's day, and thanksgiving is a harvest festival which themselve have pagan roots but paganism isn't the only reason the holidays aren't observed.

    Debatable yet irrelevant. And the other reasons the WT throws into the mix to not allow its members to celebrate are all red herrings to draw away from the weak reasoning of any one of their objections and make it appear they have many reasons for not allowing its members this Christian freedom that the Bible allows.

  • megs
    megs
    ps mother's day does have pagan roots, father's day was just a 20th century addition to mother's day, and thanksgiving is a harvest festival which themselve have pagan roots but paganism isn't the only reason the holidays aren't observed

    What are the other reasons for not observing holidays? I've never been a JW, this concept is new to me.

  • isaacaustin
    isaacaustin

    holiday- they tend to result in greed, overeating, excesses...we give gifts all yr round instead of just on a date

    birthdays- there is no record of the Hebrews celebrating birthdays, we were not told to observe Jesus birthday, we don't know his birthday...if we were not told to observe the greatest man's birthday why should we observe anyone else's, we give gifts all yr round instead of just on a date, only 2 mentioned in the Bible...both resulted in murder...Jehovah is trying to tell us something here...

  • isaacaustin
    isaacaustin

    my question has never been answered regarding what gives the WT the right to make this paganism ban and then pick and coose exactly what things are outlawed and what are allowed. On what basis do they override Paul's words in Romans 14? On what basis do they decide what is a big issue (holiday/birthday) and what is small (wedding ring/anniversary)?

  • OUTLAW
    OUTLAW

    Undercover..Jehovah`s Witness`s engage in Pagan Practices,as long as they are WBT$ Approved!!..If it`s Pagan and WBT$ Approved.Jehovah`s Witness have no problems being Hypocrites.....................Laughing Mutley...OUTLAW

  • OUTLAW
    OUTLAW

    Isacaustin..Your looking for Truth,from a Liar!.....If the Birth of Jesus was Celebrated by Gods own Angels,then there is nothing wrong with Birthdays or Christmas..They are both bible based celebrations..It`s in the Bible for all to see......Except Reniaa..LOL!!..........................Laughing Mutley...OUTLAW

  • Deputy Dog
    Deputy Dog


    reniaa

    ...but does that mean we assumed as saved people we a no longer have to avoid sinning?

    First, I believe avoiding sin and Law Keeping are two different things. Having said that, I would use your statements as well as Paul's to say that your flesh can't "avoid sinning" reniaa said:

    .....heck no i'm a lowly sinner always striving against the flesh, much in the same way Paul mentions but he from all accounts had more success than I did :)

    I wouldn't be so sure about that. Look at Paul in these verses:

    Rom 7:15

    For what I am doing, I do not understand; for I am not practicing what I would like to do, but I am doing the very thing I hate.

    Rom 7:18

    For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh; for the willing is present in me, but the doing of the good is not. 19 For the good that I want, I do not do, but I practice the very evil that I do not want.

    This wasn't Paul "before Jesus". Again look at:

    Rom 7:24

    Wretched man that I am! Who will set me free from the body of this death?

    Remember all this is Paul after his conversion.

    Now look at what Paul says to do about the flesh:

    Rom 6:11

    Even so consider yourselves to be dead to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus.

    Rom 8:13

    for if you are living according to the flesh, you must die; but if by the Spirit you are putting to death the deeds of the body, you will live.

    I would ask you to show me where Paul says to: strive "against the flesh".

  • isaacaustin
    isaacaustin

    Isacaustin..Your looking for Truth,from a Liar!.....If the Birth of Jesus was Celebrated by Gods own Angels,then there is nothing wrong with Birthdays or Christmas..They are both bible based celebrations..It`s in the Bible for all to see......Except Reniaa..LOL!!..........................Laughing Mutley...OUTLAW Exactly Outlaw. If celebrating the birth of Jesus was in any way wrong, why weren't the angels reprimanded- at the very least. They should have known better.

  • mrsjones5
    mrsjones5

    Arianism was a Christian heresy first proposed early in the 4th century by the Alexandrian presbyter Arius. It affirmed that Christ is not truly divine but a created being. The fundamental premise of Arius was the uniqueness of God, who is alone self-existent and immutable. The Son, who is not self-existent, cannot be God.

    An ascetical, moral leader of a Christian community in the area of Alexandria, Arius attracted a large following through a message integrating Neoplatonism, which accented the absolute oneness of the divinity as the highest perfection, with a literal, rationalist approach to the New Testament texts. Christ was viewed as the most perfect creature in the material world, whose moral integrity led him to be "adopted" by God as a son but who nevertheless remained a secondary deity, or Logos substantially unlike the eternal, uncreated Father and subordinate to his will. Because the Godhead is unique, it cannot be shared or communicated so that the Son cannot be God. Because the Godhead is immutable, the Son, who is mutable (being represented in the Gospels as subject to growth and change) cannot be God. The Son must, therefore, be deemed a creature who has been called into existence out of nothing and has had a beginning. Moreover, the Son can have no direct knowledge of the Father since the Son is finite and of a different order of existence. This thesis was publicized ~323 through the poetic verse of his major work, Thalia (Banquet), and was widely spread by the tactic of popular songs written for laborers and travelers.

    According to its opponents, especially Athanasius, Arius' teaching reduced the Son to a demigod, reintroduced polytheism (since the worship of the Son was not abandoned), and undermined the Christian concept of redemption since only Christ who was truly God could redeem the world. From the outset, the controversy between both parties took place upon the common basis of the Neoplatonic concept of ousia ("substance" or "stuff"), which was foreign to the New Testament itself.

    Following and exchange of condemnations (323-324) between the Arians and various gatherings of clergy in Egypt, Palestine, and Syria, Constantine, eager for unity and peace, sent emissaries to mediate the conflict. This effort failed, and he summoned the Council of Nicaea (the First Ecumenical Council) in May 325, to settle what he termed "a fight over trifling and foolish verbal differences". The bishops issued a creed to safeguard orthodox Christian belief. This creed states that the Son is homoousion to Patri (of one substance with the Father), thus declaring him to be all that the Father is: he is completely divine. When Arius refused to sign the creed, the bishops declared him a heretic and exiled him and the Arian leaders. This seemed to end the controversy, but it was only the beginning of a long-protracted dispute.

    Although the Arian leaders were exiled, they tried by intrigue to return to their churches and sees and to banish their enemies. They were partly successful. Influential support from colleagues in Asia Minor and from Constantia, the Emperor's daughter, succeeded in effecting Arius' return from exile and his readmission into the church after consenting to a compromise formula, despite the opposition from Athanasius. Shortly before he was to be reconciled, however, Arius collapsed and died while walking through the streets of Constantinople in 336.

    When Constantine died in 337, Constans became emperor in the West and Constantius II became emperor in the East. The former was sympathetic to the orthodox Christians and the latter to the Arians. At a council held at Antioch (341), an affirmation of faith that omitted the homoousion clause was issued. Another council was held at Sardica in 342, but little was achieved by either council.

    In 350 Constantius II became sole ruler of the empire, and other his leadership the Nicene party (orthodox Christians) was largely crushed. The extreme Arians then declared that the Son was anomoios (unlike) the Father. These Anomoeans succeeded in having their views endorsed at Sirmium in 357, but their extremism stimulated the moderates, who asserted that the Son was homoiousios (of similar substance) with the Father, and conservatives, who asserted that the Son was homoios (like) the Father. Constantius at first supported the Homoiousians but soon transferred his support to the Homoenas, led by Acacius. Their views were approved in 360 at Constantinople, where all previous creeds were rejected, the term ousia ("substance" or "stuff") was repudiated, and a statement of faith was issued stating that the Son was "like the Father who begot him".

    After Constantius' death in 361, the orthodox Christian majority in the West consolidated its position. The Arian persecution conducted by Emperor Valens (364-378) in the East and the success of the teaching of Basil the Great of Caesarea, Gregory of Nyssa, and Gregory of Nazianzus led the Homoiousian majority in the East to realize its fundamental agreement with the Nicene party. When the emperors Gratian (367-383) and Theodosius I (379-395) took up the defense of orthodoxy, Arianism collapsed. In 381 the Second Ecumenical Council met at Constantinople. Arianism was proscribed and the Nicene Creed was approved.

    Although this ended the heresy in the empire, Arianism continued among some of the Germanic tribes to the end of the 7th century. In modern times some Unitarians are virtually Arians in that they are unwilling either to reduce Christ to a mere human being or to attribute to him a divine nature identical with that of the Father. The Christology of the Jehovah's Witnesses is also a form of Arianism; they regard Arius as a forerunner of Charles Taze Russell, the founder of their movement.

  • reniaa
    reniaa

    I see a few o you are stuck on the pagan thing it isn't just that although being "unevenly yoked" is the principle in NT regards to some of the holidays but also Jws use the principle in galations

    8 Formerly, when you did not know God, you were slaves to those who by nature are not gods. 9 But now that you know God—or rather are known by God—how is it that you are turning back to those weak and miserable principles? Do you wish to be enslaved by them all over again? 10 You are observing special days and months and seasons and years! 11 I fear for you, that somehow I have wasted my efforts on you.

    why would paul caution them on this?

    hi Outlaw you misled me you used the word rejoice but they didn't they praised God! lol I should have looked this up biblically before not just in a dictionary ^^

    International Standard Version(©2008)
    Suddenly a multitude of the Heavenly Army appeared with the angel, praising God by saying,

    New American Standard Bible(©1995)
    And suddenly there appeared with the angel a multitude of the heavenly host praising God and saying,

    GOD'S WORD® Translation(©1995)
    Suddenly, a large army of angels appeared with the angel. They were praising God by saying,

    King James Bible
    And suddenly there was with the angel a multitude of the heavenly host praising God, and saying,

    American King James Version
    And suddenly there was with the angel a multitude of the heavenly host praising God, and saying,

    American Standard Version
    And suddenly there was with the angel a multitude of the heavenly host praising God, and saying,

    Bible in Basic English
    And suddenly there was with the angel a great band of spirits from heaven, giving praise to God, and saying,

    so our whole discussion on the meaning of the word rejoice is pointless or are you going to say the word praise means celebration now?

Share this

Google+
Pinterest
Reddit