Friends we are too unbalanced.

by sleepy 146 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  Frenchy

  I reached my posting limit and so I had to wait to be able to reply.

  To all who are reading and/or responding to this thread: I believe that the nature of this particular thread is such that only witnesses and ex-witnesses are really qualified to make these evaluations. That is not to say that no one else is welcome, but only one who has been a witness can fully appreciate the mindset of a witness. Is that a fair statement? Let’s ask those who were among those described in this thread. Larc mentioned this but let me ask it outright.

  Some pointed questions: How many of you here (that were once active witnesses) feel that you were ‘generally not good people’ and that you ‘hated worldly people’ and that you simply could not wait for the end so that they could all be slaughtered, including your family members and ‘worldly’ acquaintances? Please indicate if you think you were like that.

  To those of who answered in the affirmative to the above question: How many of you believe that: 1) You are still that terrible person that you were then. OR: 2) You are a better person now that you are not affiliated with the organization.

  -My regrets stand like grim sentinels at the gates of roads once taken but not to be traveled again...The French Knight-
• 

  Pathofthorns

  ...and I'm sure most of the world's ruthless individuals believed they were good people and what they did was for the good of something or someone.

  The fact is whether people are "nice" or whether their intentions are good, if they are promoting harmful policies and support a system that does this, then they have to accept responsibility for doing that.

  I have to admit that while I did not feel comfortable with the message of Armageddon, that is what I taught, that is what I hoped for and that is what I believed. That is an essential part of being a Witness.

  Having a broader perspective now, I appreciate that I was wrong and part of a system that held people down, that what I believed and hoped for was cruel and evil disguised as a thing of beauty.

  I was a nice person then, even as most Witnesses I would say are nice, but my beliefs invalidated that. It is a contradiction to be nice and at the same time to preach destruction.

  Path
• 

  larc

  It seems to me there is some common ground here. Most of the attacks made here, have been made against the system. Some have compared it to the Nazis, which I see as extreme and inappropriate. While the Organization preaches destruction, it does not practice it. I can enumerate the evils caused by the system as well as anyone, and I think they are significant. However, I think when we direct our anger to the individual members, we are doing them and ourselves a disservice. I really think it is important to constantly remember our own mind set that we once had. Doing so, is the only hope we have of reaching others and helping them see a different way of life.

  I also think it is useful for our own sanity to take a more dispassionate view. The recent thread on 10 reasons why people remain JWs is a good example of better understanding the issues on a conceptual level. JAVA had a similiar, excellent thread on the effects of high control religions. Unfortunately, I can not remember the title, and can't retrieve it. Now, I could be accused of practicing a little known defense mechanism - intellectualization. That is when a person takes an emotionaly charged issue and objectifies it to the point where the painful emotions disappear. Perhaps, that is what I am doing. Nonetheless, I don't think that strong feelings of anger towards the JWs or any other organization does much good for our mental health. I think that if we have enough motivation to write on this board and help those we can in other ways, that is sufficient. If we feel so stressed over this, loose sleep, and in other ways interfere with our own well being, we have gone too far. I am not saying any of you who are pissed are doing this. I don't know how you handle your personal life. I am just giving my 2 cents worth on my perspective on the whole thing.

  My own sister is still a Witness, and I wish I could reach her, but I don't think I ever will. She is a very bright woman, but with a very closed mind. Do I think she is a good person? Yes, I do. Do I think she would be better off if she left the religion? In most ways, though she would loose her daughter as a result. My sister has lived an average, married, housewife life. The religion has not done major damage to her, and I can't see signs of major mental problems. I don't know if she is average or typical, but she is the kind of person that comes to mind when I write my opinions on this thread.
• 

  hillary_step

  As always Larc, you focus the true issues with great skill.

  Thank you -- HS
• 

  sleepy

  I must admit I find it baffleing how people can condem the apparent evil they see in the typical witness and write in such language that it indicates that they hate them, whilst at the same time condeming the witnesses because apparently they hate non-witnesses.
  Seems these people ,if they are correct in what they say about witness, have not changed their own attitude much since they were one.

  Could it be the case that those who were witnesses and had the "wrong" motives for what they did and did hate "worldlings" and all that have just reversed postions, while those that tried to "help" "worldlings" and show compassion are doing the same now for the witnesses who they now view as in error?( just thinking aloud )

  Tina
  "You've totally missed the point. I suggested you look it up.It is not my definition,but universal ideals.Do you understand this sentence?
  You are exactly like the witnesses.You want all the answers handed to you so you dont have to put forth some honest effort"

  I,m sorry you misunderstand the reason I pose those questions.
  In fact when as ask a question here i am often not looking for answers I just want to understand other peoples viewpoint.

  As to universal ideals considering that most of the world is stepped in religious belief systems that have their own definitions of what is ideal the only ideals that even seam universal are the same ones that witnesses try to apply,mainly love for one another .
  How you define showing love will vary according to your world view.

  Edited by - sleepy on 5 December 2001 10:16:43
• 

  OUTLAW

  The Golden Rule:The people with the gold make the rules.

  Edited by - OUTLAW on 5 December 2001 3:44:20
• 

  Pathofthorns

  What some forget is that a large number here have had bad experiences because they either were "apostates" and/or were in front of a judicial committee and treated in a manner they were not expecting.

  There is a line many elders cross, when they go from helping an individual to protecting the organization. It is this change I've seen many times by elders where in an instant, what appeared to be a kind demeanor change into something angry and irrational.

  I appreciate the mentality and thinking and conditioning behind it all. It is just difficult to excuse calculated actions that are specifically designed to harm or punish individuals. When those in authority cross that line, then they should accept responsibility for what they've done.

  The WT allows sufficient lattitude for elders to act mercifully and make certain local decisions. When elders choose harshness, vindictiveness and display intollerance to those who may have a different way of looking at things, then they have crossed that line.

  The system cannot be blamed for everything. Individual elders that accepted responsibility also accepted accountablity.

  Path
• 

  Frenchy

  Like Path I believe there are some at the top, those with the power to make policy and doctrine, that know that harm is being done. They put their image above what is right and I consider this evil. The poor schmuck who is at the bottom of the food chain is doing what he has been convinced is right. I see a big difference in the two. Path is also correct in stating that the Society does allow latitude for the elders to act mercifully but some (perhaps many) choose to wield their power in an unkind way.

  I’ve been on both sides of committee meetings. I’ve been on the receiving end (once) and I’ve sat in that infamous semi-circle listening to someone plead his case many times. I’ve seen that look that Path spoke of. I’ve seen elders greet the accused with kind words, smiles, and handshakes and then tear into them once the door to the library is shut. I have also seen instances (other committees) where great compassion was shown and it made me proud to be an elder.

  I think Path makes a very good point with this statement also: “There is a certain responsibility each one of us has to accept for our past and present actions. Some things can be excused because of ignorance or we believed we were doing something in the name of God. Other actions just went against common decency and harmed people.” I do not think that we were totally without blame either and I think that it should bother us to some extent. But I do not call us evil.

  I asked those questions above (previous post) to evaluate my own opinion of the matter. Evil is evil. The devil was evil even in the presence of God. An evil person who is a witness will be evil when he leaves. A good person can perform evil acts if he is convinced that those acts are, in fact, a kindness that he is performing. The indignation shown by the posters on this thread at some of the inhumane policies and doctrines of the WTBS show that these people are not evil.

  Some of you, perhaps all of you, were once witnesses and now you are repulsed by what you once believed to be true and right and Godly. You were not evil, my friends, just misinformed. Your brothers and sisters who have not yet come to the realization that you have are not necessarily evil either. Do what you can for them even if they revile you for the act. Gather strength from the fact that you are on the side of right, not with the arrogance you once had as a witness, but with the humility that comes with knowing how easy it is to be wrong.

  -My regrets stand like grim sentinels at the gates of roads once taken but not to be traveled again...The French Knight-
• 

  ashitaka

  Sleep and Larc,

  Good thoughts from the both of you, but perhaps you are older. I'm 22(male) and full of rage; perhaps you are right about unfair comparisons. You're right, the witnesses aren't nazi's. They don't preach genocide, but even love sometimes. It's just the end result of BEAUROCRACY that seems to be the trouble. You think?

  ashi

  P.S.-sometimes, after they hurt my wife, I just want (figurative) BLOOD. I want revenge for the hurt they visit on my wife, and perhaps that's why youhave found so many people who may seem to be way off the deep end here. But, thank you for your level heads.
• 

  Xena

  Well for what it is worth sleepy I am with you...having been one of the "evil" Jw's for 20 years.

  Not EVERY JW shuns people, not EVERY JW wants all the worldly people to die so they can have their homes, not EVERY JW is evil. To lump an ENTIRE group of people together, say they are evil and you hate them is like lumping an entire race of people together and saying they are EVIL.

  Funny there is so much talk about there being no love from the JW's..uuumm where is our love and understanding for them? You would think people who were once in their shoes would be a little more tolerant.

  No I don't like the org. and no I don't want to go back. I hate the ORG. not ALL the individiuals. Yes there are some very evil people within the org..but you know what they might have been evil even if they had never become JW's.

  But that is just my take on it.......