Friends we are too unbalanced. (page 14)

chester

Xena,

You said it very well. That is what I had in mind on this subject.
I agree with what Frenchy and Larc say as well.

Edited by - chester on 5 December 2001 14:22:17

Some of you are missing the point I keep trying to make ... does the fact that JWs do 'evil' works make them 'evil' people? <shrugs> I don't know. What I do know is that after WWII the trials established that even though the 'peons' of the Nazi system were following orders (and had they NOT done so would probably have been killed) they were NOT excused from blame for their actions. Extreme example? Yes. But it establishes the point that simply being 'mis-informed' isn't a good excuse for 'evil' works.

Do they support an evil system? Again, define evil. Do the ends always justify the means? God would kill 99% of humanity. Is this good? Sure would solve a lot of problems - population control, environment, etc. Perhaps we would be better off living in caves wiping our butts with leaves rooting for plants to eat everyday - wure would be 'better' for the earth. Doesn't mean I want to live like that though. Doesn't make the baby that god would toss into the fire just because it's parents weren't JWs feel any better.

This doesn't mean that I hate JWs. No in fact I feel very sorry for them. If I could I would get them all out. I know/knew a LOT of very fine people in the religion. Doesn't mean that they wouldn't shun me in a heartbeat though. Doesn't mean they wouldn't 'turn me over' to the elders in a heartbeat should they see me perform an 'illegal' action. Doesn't mean they were true friends who would stick by me when I was 'spiritually weak'.

So, do I think they're 'evil'? Not in motivation, but yes in actions. Does this mean I shun them? Never, I know that if it were possible to open their eyes many would come out in a fine manner. Sorry to say I am not as powerful as the WTBTS brainwashing techniques.

waiting

After 7 pages, I can't add/argue a thing except......

I agree with PathofThorns, Frenchy, Larc, and Xena on all their points.

COMF, sometime back, made the observation that he went out and bought a Sunday newspaper. The machine came open, and he could have taken as many as he wanted (nobody around). Instead, the atheist paid for his, and shut the machine.

According to jw's- the primary reason we do good, decent things, is because we've got trained consciences primarily thanks to the teachings of the WTBTS.

When we leave the jw's - COMF's example shown through....We are what we are. My husband & I are still the same persons as we've always been (poor man to have me). We are more open, read more, talk more, our marriage is actually better - but we are the same people.

If we were mean, little, even evil, jw's.......we're probably the same now. We may grow emotionally, intellectually, after leaving the jw's - but that doesn't change the core person.

As for responsibility for what we've done as jw's? It's ours and the WTBTS's. I don't believe that we were so brainwashed as to not see, on some level, realities. We just tried to fit the jw's teachings and our realities together - and it caused much depression, anger, and pain finally.

Then, for most of us, something happened.....and we left. But we're the same people. Just free.

waiting

Xena

Well Name we may be missing the point or we may just not agree with you (shrug)...I don't know..

All religions have doctrine...uuumm Catholics have excommunication...are they evil? They don't all adhere to it but it is part of the basic church doctrine. I have spoken with a lot of "Christians" and some of the believe they have the only "true" religion and that no one else is going to heaven..are they evil? Is their entire religion and everyone who is a part of it evil?

lol basically we all have some evil in us or potential for evil..it boils down to an individual basis for me...I am not going to hate someone because they are a JW or a Catholic or black or white or man or woman...If I hate them it will be for their actions against me and mine or if I am made aware of them hurting someone else...

If nothing else I believe that being a JW and coming out of it has made me a more tolerent person...better maybe...depends on who you ask I guess

ashitaka

OKOKOKOKOKOKOK

we are beating this to death.

I think it's safe to assume that 'evil' is a bad word to use in a thread like this.

That not all JW's are 'evil'.

'Evil's' definition is according to the individual.-(Fark's post)

That 'evil' is everywhere.

In conclusion, that we just have to live and let live, no matter who the people are, no matter what they do. Just pay attention to ourselves and what we do as individuals. We can't condemn people for the wrongs we perceive, even if people agree with us. The last ten posts were excellent and sum up everything well.

ashi

p.s.-we could probably barter philosophies forever and still not have an 'answer'.

Tina

Hi again,
I just wanted to clarify my stance here. I never mentioned hate in my posts. What I repeatedly mentioned were the behaviors,not the person. The behaviors fit my definition of evil.
I've thought long and hard about that,as I had to make an honest assessment of myself as a witness.While appreciating the etiology of said behaviors I am a firm believer in personal responsibility and accountability regarding them.And the etiology makes them no less evil to me.
With that being said,I also believe behaviors can be changed or improved. I know that I have done this as many others who have left.
Once the restrictions of WT policy and teachings are removed thru honest self inquiry,hard work and research,you can only become a more tolerant,open individual.JMO,T

Vive Bene
Spesso L'amore
Di Risata Molto!!!

Edited by - Tina on 5 December 2001 12:50:50

Xena

quote:
we could probably barter philosophies forever and still not have an 'answer'

isn't that one of the reasons for a "discussion" board ash? I feel like this type of thing broadens the mind...lol if we all agreed what would be the fun or challange of that???

Just because I don't agree with someone doesn't mean I don't find their point of view interesting and thought provoking. One of the things I have loved about this board it the way the people here can express so many differing views in such well thought out posts...and how we can all agree to disagree on certain issues...

I know I have changed my viewpoint on a couple of things after reading and reflecting on posts that differed from my orignial viewpoint.

lol I say viva la difference!!!

sleepy

Just been rereading some chapters in ISOCF and noticed some comments of Ray Franz.
Pg 556-557,
"The organistation now know as Jehovahs witness from its begining somewhat over a centuary ago gave promise of much that was appealing...It is not that the goal were disgarded outright or that no progress was made toward any of them.To take the veiw that there is nothing good whatsoever to be found in the religion of Jehovahs witnesses and to engage as some former witnesses do , in a career of deriding it only manifest intense bias....If there was nothing good whatsoever there , then why were they drawn to it in the first place, or why did they remain in it for five, ten, twenty or even more years?"

Tina

I misunderstood nothing sleepy. here's an ef u,merry xmas.
Honest effort? I've been doing that for years. You dont know where I am,keep your assumptions. It's real obvious you haven't. Get beyond the franz books,go back to school like I did. You had no clue where I was coming from.lol.T

Vive Bene
Spesso L'amore
Di Risata Molto!!!

Edited by - Tina on 24 December 2001 8:51:55

sleepy

here's an ef u,merry xmas.

Didn't expect that lovey.

I don't follow fRanz by the way I was just quoting him as a matter of interest.

Friends we are too unbalanced.

chester

NameWithheld

waiting

Xena

ashitaka

Tina

Xena

sleepy

Tina

sleepy

Share this