DF'ing and DA'ing procedural change in the horizon

by iloowy 285 Replies latest members private

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  yadda yadda 2

  Yes lloowy, but did you notice that 2 Thess 3:15 says to continue admonishing him as a brother, even while avoiding association. So that precludes complete shunning.

  They can spin it how they like and announce that the person is "no longer one of Jehovah's Witnesses" but it is grossly unscriptural to totally shun someone who has not committed any sin per 1 Cor 5 (and similar passages) but who has merely drifted away and is inactive, even long term.

  If this turns out to be the new policy it is clearly going far beyond "what is written" on and many JW's who maintain association with merely faded, inactive relatives won't swallow it.

  It's bad enough forcing JW's to totally shun reIatives who are fornicators, drunkards, smokers (incidentally, disfellowshipping for smoking is clearly unscriptural and going beyond what is written) etc but who otherwise have no beef against JWS, but being told to shun family and long-time friends merely for the 'omission' of no longer attending meetings or going out in FS really pales beyond all scriptural reasonableness.

  If this rumour is true it really is a great disappointment, a very sad development for those of us who still held out some hope of reform for the good. It's quite a monstrous proposal that would truly reveal what dark, desperate hearts the men in power at the WT really have.
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  iloowy

  [...] If this turns out to be the new policy it is clearly going far beyond "what is written" on and many JW's who maintain association with merely faded, inactive relatives won't swallow it.

  It's bad enough forcing JW's to totally shun reIatives who are fornicators, drunkards, smokers (incidentally, disfellowshipping for smoking is clearly unscriptural and going beyond what is written) etc but who otherwise have no beef against JWS, but being told to shun family and long-time friends merely for the 'omission' of no longer attending meetings or going out in FS really pales beyond all scriptural reasonableness.

  If this rumour is true it really is a great disappointment, a very sad development for those of us who still held out some hope of reform for the good. It's quite a monstrous proposal that would truly reveal what dark, desperate hearts the men in power at the WT really have.

  I agree Yadda that it all seems very unscriptural and I would add that the spin the WT gives anything they wish to present can make things unscriptural seem like they have tons of references in the Bible. They are masters at the art of the spin in the writing department.

  Is the WTS able to reform. I feel the foundation of the tower is beyond reform. There are stones of truth that build it up and appeal to honest and seeking Christian believers but there is also a lot of sub-standard building materials and mortar that make the whole thing a disgusting travesty. I feel.

  The desperate hearts of the men in power as you say have only one goal. Sustainability. It's a big catch word in the business world today. These men are interested in keeping the enterprise going no matter whether some R&F JWs suffer because of it and that is also disgusting.

  I don't feel right in judging my brother in anything. But to expose the truth about the WT is to keep other sincere and conscientious believers whether or not JWs from falling prey to the abuse of the WT. The WT is nothing more than a corporation. A man made entity that has forced its place between God and those that seek to know him. As a JW I'm ashamed to know that the legal department is always scheming ways of getting the WT out of trouble at the expense of the Lord's sheep, causing suffering for families and individuals both emotionally and psychologically, and even at times physically. This too is disgusting and I don't see how the WT can be reformed, it's too much part of its makeup.

  With warm regards.
  --ILOOWY
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  Gordy

  There are to many "ifs" and "buts" about this.

  Yes I can see the WT trying to implement something this to scare the "inactive ones" back to the KH. It seems just a way to get their numbers back up, even if those that return only do an hour a month.

  But as some have said on the other hand how they can implement it, they would need to totally show what they are doing is "scriptural". Otherwise they could run into some difficult questions if someone they try to DA raises an objection.

  Why has this come from a foreign language source, and not say from some Elder in USA leaking it. Usually if things like this occur its the USA section that gets it first from the Governing Body, then the rest of the world.

  Until we hear something definitely "WT official" we can take as being a rumour.
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  Hope4Others

  Quote:(It is a matter of making the person see that he has chosen through his actions to separate or disassociate from the rest of the congregation. He has disassociated himself. At any rate it will be announced from the platform that "So-and-so is no longer one of Jehovah's Witness.")
  
  This really makes it up to the imagination of the congregation as to why you are no longer considered a jw...
  They are really trying to force ones hand here.
  
  
  h40
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  sweetstuff

  I'd say it's more than likely a strategy they would put into place, because their biggest threat is inactive or faded family members who might whisper reality into the ears of family still in. Less and less people are actually coming into the organization as 'fresh recruits' so they are getting desperate to keep the hold on the members they still have and their future offspring. It is all about terror and control. Nothing new there.
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  yadda yadda 2

  There's no way this is to scare inactive ones back in to boost the numbers. Those inactive ones are often the well-informed 'whisperers' and 'complainers' who may be inclined to subtly mention 'apostate' ideas . These are the ones the WT wants to keep away. I don't believe the WT is that desperate for numbers that it would do this to try and force a few long term 'inactive' ones to attend a couple meetings a month and falsely report 1 hour a month and not make any donations.

  If that is their motive then it would backfire badly because if a lot of 'apostate' faders decide to return but go through the motions by putting in a token appearance they could be very destructive in sowing 'apostate' thinking right in the congregation. They will now have contact not only with their relatives but also with JW's, many of whom are disgruntled, disillusioned and disaffected and who will probably lap up the bit of 'whispering' by the former completely faded JW who now puts in a token effort to maintain association.

  So basically it's a catch-22 for the Watchtower. If this new policy (if true) is a witchunt to purge inactive faders who are 'apostate' and 'poisoning' the minds of relatives, it will have the converse affect of keeping these disgruntled ones trapped in the organisation who would otherwise fade. Such persons, who are often curious about 'apostate' stuff, would choose to stay and potentially 'complain' and 'whisper' against the organisation, not only to their relatives but to the JW's they still associate with. So it would be a counter-productive policy. Better to just let them fade and get out of the organisation and just tell JW's to avoid relatives who are apostate thinkers.

  Nuts.
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  passwordprotected

  @ cabasilas - "Perhaps...it's just that it becomes a legal fiction to claim that a person voluntarily disassociated themselves when they say they want to remain a member of the group. I would wonder if a lawyer could do something with that."
  
  And the elders would reply, "But it's clear from your actions that you don't want to be part of the group any more. Look at this scripture/WT article. You know the standards for those who wish to be part of God's clean people and your actions have shown that you don't want to be part of God's clean people anymore, I'm afraid." In other words you've revoked your membership.
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  passwordprotected

  @ yadda - yes, it would be unscriptural. But when did that ever matter? Remember the article last year in the WT about obeying the GB even if we don't understand?
  
  "As we get nearer to the outbreak of the great tribulation, we may well receive some detailed instructions. Our safe journey through those troublesome days will depend on our keeping in step with other loyal servants of Jehovah."
  And;
  "Today, we may not clearly see why some organizational matters are handled in a certain way, but we have every reason to trust in Jehovah’s guidance through his faithful channel of communication. " - w07 12/15 pp. 19-20 pars. 15-16 “Stand Firm and See the Salvation of Jehovah”
  
  It's certainly right to look at what the WTS does - or intends to do - and ask 'where in Scripture is that' but they make sure they pre-empt such audacious questioning from the R&F by putting quotes like those above in the WT.
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  passwordprotected

  There's no doubt in my mind that one of the biggest threats to the WTS is faders. Faders still have access to families and friends. They can whisper and murmur. Are we in any doubt that the WTS monitors sites like this and sees for themselves what faders are up to and able to accomplish? How many faders on here scrupulously avoid being DFd for the sole reason of having some contact with family and friends to whisper in their ears? The WTS knows this, they see the threat.
  
  Someone mentioned the WTS need for sustainability. Spot on. Think about it; the WTS is almost 100 years into their invisible heavenly reign of Christ. 2014 is going to be absolutely crucial. How they spin 100 years of Christ doing zilch to bring the Big A is crucial to them keeping their members. Yes, some will stay in the Org no matter what, but it's going to be hard to fool all of the JWs all of the time. So, they need to have a plan of sustainability. I've ascerted before that the way the WTS will do this is by tightening their fist around the R&F, making the walls of the compound harder to scale, making the punishments - and fear of punishment - more severe.
  
  If this action against faders is going to be a reality it will force some back to the KH. And for those that it doesn't force back, it closes the door on them. They'll be DAd, cut off from family and friends, unable to exert any influence anymore.
  
  Is this unscriptural? Of course. But when does that ever matter? We're dealing with 'Christ's brothers on earth', 'God's trusted channel of communication', 'God's mouthpiece'. The local PO told me that when the GB speak, it's Jehovah speaking. My wife and I were DAd for leaving the teachings of Christ as interpreted by the FDS, not for doing anything unscriptural or unChristian.
  
  So the WTS will be able to roll this out, spin it to make it look like a loving act or protection on their part and cull the deadwood, sift the dross, thresh the chaff, toss back the small, unsuitable fish.
  
  "Look how loving the Governing Body are, brothers, see how concerned they are for your welfare!"
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  Borgia

  There exist a scenario, and possibly more than one, that may be of help to remedy this: One single strong overpowering blow to slackers and other subversive elements. Two results may be yielded:
  1)drop in “publishers” who are not really publisher but window dressers.
  Step one, next CO visit, identify all slacking and subversive elements. Encourage to make a mend.
  Stept two: Next CO visit discuss new regultions on disfellowshipping based on 1 kor 5, being that on disfellowshipping offences, disfellowshipping must take place (scripture says remove, therefore calling for immediate descisive action, instead of you may remove) whether or not the guilty party repents. After being reinstated they will run probably harder and stick more closely to the party line.
  Based on 1 John 2:19 anyone slacking in visiting meetings more than X ties a months and fieldservice more than X months in a row: DF/A, if no improvement after applicable strong scriptural councel and help to improve has been given and no improvement to average publisher hours can be noted, provided the person is not of old age (15 minute preacher) and in to sick a condition to participate in the fieldservice (mind you: telephone preaching belongs to the opportunities). It may be that the priveledge of participation at the TMS and WTS may be revoked as a measure of “help” to let the “evildoer “ get a sense of urgency to repent and do better. Special project for MS and Elders and pioneers may apply.
  
  Time to market: 6 to 8 months.

  I wrote this 2 years ago. So, it seems now to be hanging on the zeal of the elders to make the announcement.
  
  Cheers
  
  Borgia