NOW how do you view the Future? (page 8)

theMadJW

Again-

Every kind of artwork shows SOMETHING about the artist- as does how WE are made does. Can't SEE any of it?

What do YOUR instincts tell you? That this brief, sordid life is all there is? Or that there is SOMETHING, SOMEWHERE better ahead?

SweetBabyCheezits

I'm a human not an animal. My "instincts" are my convictions. I first believed what I'd been led to believe - paradise and everlasting life. Had my parents been Baptist, I would've "instinctinvely" believed in heaven.

Now my "instincts" are based on logic and reason, a personal unbiased search for truth. Those "instincts" tell me that certainty is ridiculous.

SweetBabyCheezits

Became a JW at 19- t'was a Catholic before that...

Interesting... not raised as a JW. How old are you now?

theMadJW

59. Dammit!

What do you instints, based on whatever you think they are, tell you about this life? Is "that all she wrote"?

Darth plaugeis

Sad to say ...........yes

this is it. Game over when you die dude...

SweetBabyCheezits

SW, if you are a Science buff, and STUDY their articles on "Nature", you will quickly see billions of cells, made of
countless billions of molecules,made of countless trillions of atoms,made of countless trillions and more trillions of sub-atomic particles...All arrangedto co-operate together in systems- muscles, skeletons, organs,
nervous systems, etc, and designed in a manner allowing them to exist in different environments.
Thus, all living things are complex beyond full comprehension, and screams the fact we have a Maker!

MJW, I do see your logic and I used to share it. I don't claim to have a good understanding of science (working on it) and, based on your comments, neither do you.... so putting that aside, let's just look at the logic:

"all living things are complex beyond full comprehension, and screams the fact we have a Maker!"

This is an argument of "special pleading." If you are relying solely on logic and not presupposition to reach this point, you must then ask:

If, as a rule of logic, all living things are so complex that they MUST have had a Maker, where did that Maker come from?
Or if you can accept that an incomprehensibly complex spirit did not need a designer, why could you not say the same for the incomprehensibly complex universe?

Again, you're argument above is based on logic. That being the case, you can't switch over to faith at this point.

HintOfLime

Lime, every kind of artwork shows SOMETHING about the artist- as does how WE are made does. Can't SEE any of it?

The universe is not art. The universe is a product of law. It is orderly. It is beautiful. But it is not art. We, and all biological life are not art, either. We are a product of law.

Anyone who studies fractal mathmatics immediately picks up on how many things in nature and the universe are fractal in nature. Clouds, trees, mountains, solar systems, galaxies - all clearly driven by laws and mathmatics - NOT a paint brush.

What do YOUR instincts tell you? That this brief, sordid life is all there is? Or that there is SOMETHING, SOMEWHERE better ahead?

The thing that makes humans superior to animals is that we can act on more than instinct. Instinct is exceptionally faulty. Trusting instinct will make you the victim of all sorts of cons.

If I ask you to pick a random card out of a deck and hand that card to me, but keep the deck... INSTINCT might tell you I'm holding the 8 of hearts - but you'd be a fool to trust your instinct and not look at that deck for FACT. If the 8 of hearts is in the deck, and you go with your instincts, you are a damn fool.

WE don't have to rely on instinct anymore - we are not lower animals. We have tools that allow use to OBSERVE THE FACTS, and grow beyond 'what I wish were true''.

Having a limited lifespan gives each moment meaning and importance. It gives my life urgancy - in that if I wish to accomplish things, I can't put them off. And in the end, 70-90 years really isn't so short a time.

- Lime

SweetBabyCheezits

MJW, my "instincts" tell me, grim though it may seem when one previously entertained dreams of everlasting paradise, that my sentience is temporary. My "instincts" tell me to have some share in leaving the earth a little better place. My "instincts" tell me to raise my kids to be good people and encourage them to leave the earth a little better than they found it, too.

If I fall asleep and dream that my family and I have retired to Ouray, Colorado, I may wake up somewhat disappointed. But the fact that I'm now aware it was just a dream curbs my desire to persist in that delusion.

Darth plaugeis

No one said the future is so bright.. I need to wear sunglasses

theMadJW

Thanks for the candor, DP. Sorry to hear that.

"If, as a rule of logic, all living things are so complex that they MUST have had a Maker, where did that Maker come from?
Or if you can accept that an incomprehensibly complex spirit did not need a designer, why could you not say the same for the incomprehensibly complex universe?"

As a "rule of logic" we HAVE an example of something without Beginning nor End- Space. Not understanding HOW a Being could always exist doesn't rule it out at ALL, whereas hitting the lotto millions of times in a row DOES.

NOW how do you view the Future?

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