by sayitsnotso 290 Replies latest watchtower bible
"If the dead are not to be raised up, “let us eat and drink, for tomorrow we are to die." - 1 Corithians 15:32
Is this the advice you guys are really giving?
Dam Straight!!..
Your missing the whole movie waiting for..
"THE END"
And..
Your behind on your Beer Drinking..
I`ve made up for it..But..
I`m only going to cover your ass for so long..
Get with the Program..
Sigh! This IS the saddest... and most frustrating... consequence of religion, particularly the WTBTS (peace to you, dear SINS!)... for these take their victims "half-way to heaven"... and then drop them off. But really, what else can they do?
I find it funny (as in peculiar), though, that folks have virtually NO problem believing the WTBTS is "it" after leaving all manner of other religions... but cannot fathom that there is anything (revealing the True God)... after the WTBTS. Indeed, what power they (the WTBTS and religion in general) wield!!!!
Dear SINS, the WTBTS was NEVER "it". It was NEVER the "truth." There was and is only ONE Truth:
"I... am the Way... and the Life... and the Truth. NO ONE comes to the Father, except through me." John 14:6
Dear Sylvia spoke TRUTHFULLY to you (perhaps the FIRST truth you have heard/received on this matter). There is no WHERE to go away to. There is ONLY a whom:
" 63 It is the spirit that is life-giving; the flesh is of no use at all. The sayings that I have spoken to YOU are spirit andare life. 64 But there are some of YOU that do not believe.” For from [the] beginning Jesus knew who were the ones not believing and who was the one that would betray him. 65 So he went on to say: “This is why I have said to YOU , No one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father.” 66 Owing to this many of his disciples went off to the things behindand would no longer walk with him. 67 Therefore [Jesus] said to the twelve: “Y OU do not want to go also, do YOU?” 68 Simon Peter answered him: “Lord, whom shall we go away to? Youhave sayings of everlasting life; 69 and we have believed and come to know that you are the Holy One of God.”
Religion, however, teaches that you must come to THEM... and go THROUGH them... and that THEY must choose you (i.e., as to whether or not you "qualify" to "serve" God... are "worthy", etc.). And, for a time, we buy it... hook, line, and sinker. Then, we come to know THEM as liars. And what do we do about that? We assume that because THEY are liars... Christ, the Holy One of Israel is also liar! Because, well, THEY said God exists... yet, they lie about almost everything else (or, at least, everything that is "important")... and HE said God exists, too! So, doesn't that make HIM a liar, too! Because, right now, we're no longer sure if God exists.
But God didn't trick us, dear SINS, nor did Christ. It was man who tricked us. False christs and false prophets. Who we listened to... instead of listening to the One the Most Holy One of Israel TOLD us to listen to:
"This is my Son, the Beloved,whom I have approved. Listen... to HIM". Matthew 17:5
We CHOSE... to listen to others... for whatever reason (our parents told us to, we believed the lies, etc.). But listening to our parents is not our fault. We SUPPOSED to listen to our parents. Our PARENTS, however (and thus, we, AS parents)... are SUPPOSED to listen to GOD... and not man. While we are children we are "under men in charge," pedagogues. Our parents... and perhaps the religious "leaders" our parents hand us over to. But at SOME point we grow up... and THEN we are SUPPOSED to "seek" God... ON OUR OWN. Think of it: a 50-year-old man saying he "serves Jehovah" because "my parents served Jehovah." Are we not supposed to serve God because WE love Him and want to know Him... and not because what our PARENTS are doing/feel?
Even so, we CANNOT say that God led us there or that we listened to God in following such ones. Because the two things CANNOT be! If God exists... and God is LOVE... and His Son is TRUTH... then He would NEVER lead us into something FALSE. He CANNOT. It is SIMPLE MATH: the equation CANNOT be! LOVE... CANNOT... DO... HARM. And TRUTH... CANNOT... GIVE BIRTH TO LIES. If "p" is love... and love cannot do harm... and "q" is harm... then "p"... CANNOT EQUAL "q"! If "p" is truth... and truth cannot lie... and "q" is lies... then "p"... CANNOT EQUAL "q"!
It is this VERY equation, yes a MATH equation, that helped me build the "foundation" of my faith. It helped me understand why MUCH of what is written in the OT about the Most Holy One of Israel... CANNOT BE. It is how I came to understand just what my Lord meant when he said: "I came... to bear witness... TO THE TRUTH"... about the Most Holy One of Israel, JAH of Armies. His God... and His Father.
When I ACCEPTED the TRUTH of this logic... the rest became quite easy. LOVE... is how we "test" the "inspired expression."
The Most Holy One of Israel NEVER told us to go with them, dear SINS. Indeed, through His Son He WARNED us about them. Yet, now, rather than THANKING Him for calling us OUT from among them... most of us can only bring ourselves to blame Him for "allowing" us to go "into" them in the first place. But that is because we don't see the TRUE picture: while God and Christ don't prevent the sheep from going in, they don't LEAD them in; rather, they are the ones who call the sheep... and lead them OUT:
"... he that enters through the door is shepherd of the sheep. 3
The doorkeeper opens to this one, and the sheep listen to his voice, andhe calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. 4 When he has got all his ownout, he goes beforethem, and thesheep follow him, because they know his voice. 5 A stranger they will by no means follow but will flee from him, becausethey do not know the voice of strangers.” John 10:2-5
They do not know the voice of strangers because THOSE voices utter LIES. At some point that becomes EVIDENT to these sheep and they can no longer follow such voice(s). It is impossible. Why? Because they are "children of light". And light... is truth. Thus, Christ is the Light (John 8:11)... AND the Truth (John 14:6)... and so they FLEE from the voice of liars... and follow HIS voice because it ALWAYS speaks what is upright and true.
Yes, the strangers' voices SOUNDED like "truth"... because "Satan KEEPS transforming HIMSELF into an angel of light (truth)." But... he is a LIAR and eventually THAT truth comes out. His lies, as told through HIS servants... religion... become known to the sheep... and they flee.
So, what of those who have left off following religion AND following Christ? The same will occur for them at some point (and, yes, it can take years, even a lifetime... just as it does for those IN religion): at some point, the "thing" they are following (i.e., the "scientific," "earthly", "physical," whathaveyou)... will disappoint. At some point, just like in religion, they are going to find out that something was fabricated, fraudulently contrived just to push the particular thinking/belief. And then their entire reliance on that belief system will also be shaken. THEN where are such ones to go? Again, there is no "where"... but only a whom.
And the spiritual does not contradict science, dear one. Indeed, MOST scientists believe in God. World renowned theoretical physicist, Steven Hawking, believes in God (although he kind of picks and chooses when he does). And when you read some of his theories, the explanations are there, even if he can't see them. The "Big Bang" theory supports a Creator (although, again, much of what the theory hypothecates can be explained - problem is, no one asks those who do not hold certain academic credentials). But the problem is that the equations are SIMPLE... not rocket science. And one could know them... if one would only condescend to LEARN them... from the One who brought it all into existence in the first place, by learning from His Son:
"Take My yoke upon you andlearn from Me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls." Matthew 11:29
" 4 To YOU , O men, I am calling, and my voice is to the sons of men. 5 O inexperienced ones, understand shrewdness; and YOU stupid ones, understand heart. 6 Listen, for it is about the foremost things that I speak, and the opening of my lips is about uprightness. 7 Formy palate in low tones utters truth itself; and wickedness is something detestable to my lips. 8 All the sayings of my mouth are in righteousness. Among them there is nothing twisted or crooked. 9 All of them are straightto the discerning one, and uprightto the ones findingknowledge." Proverbs 8:4-9
Some will say, "Well, I've been out of the WTBTS for umpteenth years and I still believe in ...." whatever it is they now put their hope in. Contrastly, they forget that perhaps they were IN the WTBTS far longer than they have been out... with belief in that false prophet intact for most of such years. How long one believes something is entirely irrelevant. Just as how long one has been "in the trooth" is entirely irrelevant.
Through His Son, the Most Holy One of Israel reveals Himself to infants as well as to those on the deathbed:
"Samuel was lying in the temple of JaHVeH, where the ark of God was. 4 And JaHVeH proceeded to call Samuel." 1 Samuel 3:3
" 1 In those days Hez·e·ki´ah got sick to the point of dying. Accordingly Isaiah the son of A´moz the prophet came in to him and said to him: “This is what JaHVeH has said, ‘Give commands to your household, for you yourself will indeed die and will not live.’” 2 At that he turned his face to the wall and began to pray to JaHVeH, saying: 3 “I beseech you, O JaHVeH, remember, please, how I have walked before you in truthfulness and with a complete heart, and what was good in your eyes I have done.” And Hez·e·ki´ah began to weep profusely. 4 And it came about that Isaiah himself had not yet gone out to the middle court when JaHVeH's Word came to him, saying: 5 “Go back, and you must say to Hez·e·ki´ah the leader of my people, ‘This is what JaHVeH the God of David your forefather has said: “I have heard your prayer. I have seen your tears. Here I am healing you. On the third day you will go up to the house of JaHVeH. 6 And I shall certainly add fifteen years to your days, and out of the palm of the king of As·syr´i·a I shall deliver you and this city, and I will defend this city for my own sake and for the sake of David my servant.”’”2 Kings 20:1-6
" 4 And the word of JaHVeH began to occur to me, saying: 5 “Before I was forming you in the belly I knew you, and before you proceeded to come forth from the womb I sanctified you. Prophet to the nations I made you.” 6 But I said: “Alas, O Sovereign Lord JaHVeH! Here I actually do not know how to speak, for I am but a boy.” Jeremiah 1:4-6
" 39 For the promise is to YOU and to YOUR children and to all those afar off, just as many as Jehovah our God may call to him.” Acts 2:39
Many say, "Well, why hasn't He called ME, yet?" to which I would respond, "Yes, why? That is a question YOU must ask YOURSELF." Because we know why. The answer is ALWAYS "in" us... if would dare to look at it. But many of us don't dare - it is too ugly to take in. We are just too "naked." My point? That... IT IS NOT OUR CHOICE AS TO WHEN the Most Holy One of Israel reveals Himself to us, by means of revealing His Son and Word, Christ. It is HIS choice... by means of when it is that WE... "prepare our hearts" FOR Him. And it usually starts with a small thing, one that demonstrates our FAITH:
“If anyone loves me, he will observe my word, and my Father will love him, and we shall come to him and make our abode with him. 24 He that does not love me does not observe my words; and the word that YOU are hearing is not mine, but belongs to the Father who sent me." John 14:23, 24
What is that "word" that we are to observe? The very one that the WTBTS tells you NOT to observe!!
" 19 Also, he took a loaf, gave thanks, broke it, and gave it to them, saying: “This means my body which is to be given in YOUR behalf. Keep doing this in remembrance of me.” Luke 22:19
48 “I am the bread of life. 49 Y OUR forefathers ate the manna in the wilderness and yet died. 50 This is the bread that comes down from heaven, so that anyone may eat of it and not die. 51 I am the living bread that came down from heaven; if anyone eats of this bread he will live forever; and, for a fact, the bread that I shall give is my flesh in behalf of the life of the world.” 52 Therefore the Jews began contending with one another, saying: “How can this man give us his flesh to eat?” 53 Accordingly Jesus said to them: “Most truly I say to YOU , Unless YOU eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, YOU have no life in yourselves. 54 He that feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood has everlasting life, and I shall resurrect him at the last day; 55 for my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink. 56 He that feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood remains in union with me, and I in union with him. 57 Just as the living Father sent me forth and I live because of the Father, he also that feeds on me, even that one will live because of me. 58 This is the bread that came down from heaven. It is not as when YOUR forefathers ate and yet died. He that feeds on this bread will live forever.” John 6:48-58
And that is why MOST here do not accept and cannot comprehend what I share - because they have not brought themselves to HEAR... get the SENSE of... and FOLLOW this very small direction. The Holy One of Israel is not asking us to be nailed to a torture tree. He is not asking us to sacrifice our lives for him... as he sacrified his for us. He is only asking that we PARTAKE OF HIS FLESH AND BLOOD... IN FAITH. A very small thing... and he who is faithful in what is LEAST... is faithful... in MUCH.
Yet, of ALL the lies that the WTBTS has told... their subtle but VERY powerful "prohibition" against ALL eating and drinking the flesh and blood of Christ... is the MOST harmful. Because THAT is the one that has "shut up the kingdom of the heavens before men." THAT is the one that MANY here cannot get over. They don't mind celebrating holidays. They don't mind committing adultery, fornication, homosexuality (and I am not judging anyone for ANY of these things - but merely making a point). But "EAT AND DRINK OF THE CHRIST??? No, we are not "worthy" of that. The WTBTS may have lied about a LOT of things... but they are not lying about that!"
Dear SINS... I say to you that not only are they lying about that, but that that particular lie... is the worst of them all. THAT particular lie far surpasses ALL of the others. For NONE of the others are relevant to everlasting life... or knowing God. It does NOT matter whether we know who the "generations" are... or what time period they cover. It does NOT matter if we know what 1914 does... or does not... signify. It does NOT matter if "Armageddon" occurs at the end of the "great tribulation"... or the "end of the 1,000 years." It does NOT matter if we know who the 144,000 are... or who make up the "great crowd." It does NOT matter if we know who is "anointed" and/or who is not.
What MATTERS... is whether we hear the CALL... to "COME! Take 'life's water'... FREE!"... which 'water' is poured out from the innermost parts of the Holy One of Israel, JAHESHUA MISCHAJAH... the Son and Christ... and Holy Spirit... of the MOST Holy One of Israel... JAH of Armies. What MATTERS... is whether we hear HIS voice... and follow HIM. And we START... by OBEYING him... in the least of his requests. Which is:
"Take... EAT! THIS MEANS MY BODY!"
Because HE... is the Tree of Life... the TRUE Vine... the ROOT of Jesse... SPROUT! If we can't even bring ourselves to follow that little directive, then certainly we should know why we don't hear any of the greater things.
I bid you peace... and ears to hear... when the Spirit and the Bride say to YOU:
"COME! Take 'life's water'... FREE!"
That call is made every day, not once a year. However, at least ONCE a year... that invitation is held out to at least 12 million (or maybe it's 16 million?) people... men and women... old AND young. And at least once a year... close to 12 million (or 16...)... pass "life" over. You don't have to be among them.
Peace to you!
A slave of Christ,
SA
if you perpertrated a hoax
We don't need a hoax. We need to know if he came back to life.
Indeed, MOST scientists believe in God.
Please define "God".
There are already 5 pages that I just cannot read it all, so my thoughts may have been covered.
What hope do we have to look forward to?
Each and every day, you can hope to make a positive connection with another human being, you can hope you will be here tomorrow.
You can look forward to coffee or tea, a pastry, a laugh, the breeze, simultaneous orgasm with your partner, drinking a wee bit too much if you can handle it, puppies, the way a pelican plops into the water to find a fish, seeing a rainbow, a child's smile, a good book, solving the Sodoku or crossword puzzle to completion, a good bowel movement with the National Geographic in hand, music, birds chirping, kittens, your favorite type of movie, gardening.
Actual "looking forward" varies per human as well as each person's ability to do some of the above.
Edited to add: Okay, I read some more of your thoughts.
As humans we never get to the point where we say, "I'm satisifed, I had a lot of enjoyable experiences in life and am Happy. I'm ready to die!" Quite the opposite really. People only wish to die when they are suffering. So really all of us wish deep down inside to be able to live forever, happily.
If it is simply just creduility taking over, then again, what's the point?
If one is enjoying life, they don't want it to end. Still, I have seen enough elderly people that had no regrets and are satisfied that they lived a good life. They may not have everlasting ahead of themselves, but they enjoyed what they had. I mean, logic like yours suggests that we should not enjoy anything because it will end.
"If the dead are not to be raised up, “let us eat and drink, for tomorrow we are to die." - 1 Corithians 15:32
Is this the advice you guys are really giving?
That is somewhat of the reality you can face. It's been spun to appear as wickedness. It doesn't have to be wicked to enjoy life. Don't screw others over, but have a good time.
This was a long 5 page read...there are only answers according to your OWN heart OP...you just have to find them ...
Loz x
Look around you... why would you WASTE your life A) Hoping God will destroy the earth and everybody in it who arent JWs....B) going door to door telling everybody else that their religion is NOT pleasing to God and only becoming a JW will save them C) Raising your children to hate everything and everybody who isnt a JW D) Doing NO holidays NO birthdays having NO associates or friends outside the auspices of the Organization E) Going to meetings twice a week and preparing for those meetings and talking at those meetings and studying for those meetings which go over the same boring mind numbing propaganda over and over and over and .....F) Being disalllowed from thinking independently what the Borg commands that you think and say, or checking anything that the Borg prints or says subjecting yourself to being accused of apostacy and divisions. G) Losing your friends and your family if you choose to think differently from the Borg.
What part of the above in your opinion has ANYTHING to do with God? With Christ? With Love? With being human and LOVING THE LIFE GOD GAVE YOU?
You don't need the WTS to have hope - hope in Jesus, God, or even in an afterlife. Perhaps you no longer have things spelled out for you in black and white, and I know that this can be terrifying and daunting when you thought you knew it 'all' and now you have to rethink and reevaluate. But really, you don't have to go somewhere else to have this hope. As Sylvia and Aguest have pointed out -PSac also, I think - you really only have to go to Jesus. He is the mediator; you don't need a mediator to get to Him.
This is what I did. I started slow, mind you. I put my faith in God, then I eventually became comfortable by putting my faith and my love directly in Jesus, as the Father has told us to do. Peace and hope will flow from Him, to you. My faith, after a bit of a struggle I admit, brings me this peace and hope.
Aguest wrote some very worthy things. About religion and what it has done to us by taking Jesus' place. Put your trust in Jesus, have hope in Him, and be patient with yourself.
There is no need to give up hope for the future.
Peace to you,
Tammy
SINS - The longer you believed you would never die and could live forever in paradise the more screwed your thinking is likely to be. Nothing compares to living forever in paradise, right? Everything pales in significance to that illustrious hope doesn't it? But it isn't real. Somebody wrapped up a box all pretty with a bow, handed it to us and said don't open until Armaggedon. Well we decided to open it up sooner and it's empty.
What a disappointment. The anticipation of opening up that gift was overwhelming at times and the fact that it is empty is heartbreaking. But there are other presents to be opened. The wrapping isn't as pretty. But the gifts inside are real.
That's how I try to think about it anyway.
First, I'm just glad to be out of the WTS so that I can actually think about whether there is or is not a god. I'm still undecided on the matter, although I plan on doing a lot more reading and thinking before I come to a concrete decision.
I do know this: I prayed to God for 25 years, and the more and harder I prayed, it drove me deeper into a destructive mind control cult. So I'm pretty sure that for those 25 years, nobody was listening to my prayers.
Billions of people have lived on the earth, and I haven't seen anybody that has moved on to an afterlife and has come back to let me know that an afterlife exists.
If God wrote a book for us, then surely he would have preserved the original text so that his message would be here for us today, instead of copies of copies copies.
If God wanted us to draw close to him, then surely he would make sure that we knew the exact pronunciation of his name. According to my limited research - nobody knows that. (I think this statement is correct..please correct me if it's not..)
These are things that I ponder. Sure, an afterlife would be awesome. I wish there was one myself. Especially if it was an afterlife that was enjoyable. But realistically, looking at the hard facts available - I'm not leaning toward believing in this right now.
As mentioned, I plan to do much more reading on this subject in the future. And I have enjoyed this thread very much. It's very mentally stimulating to read oposing views on this matter.
-mentallyfree31-
