What hope is there then? (page 8)

Bluegill

when I was a little kid I would use this one on my Mom......"Why should I make my bed in the morning, I'm only gonna get into it this evening." Didn't work then!

PSacramento

Yes, we do have to asume that the apostles that were martyred, were indeed martyred.

But leaving that for the moment, the point I was trying to make is that, IF the apostles stole the body and hid it, then they would NOT be so inclined to die for a RESSURECTED Jesus, it would be far healthier and long living to "ignore it and let it go away" and condsidering what they did BEFORE they saw Jesus ressurected, that would have made far more sense.

SacrificialLoon

Here's a good quote for you from a Stoic philosopher and Emperor:

"Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones." - Marcus Aurelius

undercover

This assumes that the bible is not inspired by God.

DING DING DING We have a winner!

sir82

Psac,

Agreed. If...if....if....if....then that would have made more sense.

Where I (and many others) have the problems is in filling in between the IFs. I imagine as I noted that's where "faith" comes in.

leavingwt

IF the apostles stole the body and hid it, then they would NOT be so inclined to die for a RESSURECTED Jesus

Yes, I'll grant you that. The specific people carrying out the hoax would be unlikely to die for a hoax. IF there was a hoax.

How about this? An elder tells a few faithful that it is their duty to hide the body, because the Holy Spirit revealed it unto him?

PSacramento

PSac -- It's like being in a cult. NOBODY actually in the cult thinks it's a cult. So, those guys dying, they probably believed it. We don't have to introduce a hoax story in conjunction with this. I'm certainly not suggesting that there was a missing body hoax.

That is always a possibility, it is just not an very likely one.

They could have just as easliy kept the cult going on as one that followed the teachings of a great teacher that was killed for preaching about the Kingdom of God and about Love.

Would have been easier and they probably wouldn't have been persecuted, perhaps.

leavingwt

PSac -- As far as motivations, the ones popular today would have worked: (1) Fear, (2) guilt, (3) fabulous reward.

PSacramento

How about this? An elder tells a few faithful that it is their duty to hide the body, because the Holy Spirit revealed it unto him?

I am sure Thomas would have told them were to stick that ;)

There wasn't really much left after Jesus's death, the apostles were "cowering" behind closed dood in fear of being arrested or worse.

That is why they sent the women, LOL!

PSacramento

PSac -- As far as motivations, the ones popular today would have worked: (1) Fear, (2) guilt, (3) fabulous reward

Reward?

In 33AD Palestine?

Dude...

As for fear, better to leave will enough alone and as for guilt, well...to plan a coup like that...grasping at straws I think.

What hope is there then?

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