LOL, are we talking about teenagers or morons?? Are we talking about independent thinking, or momentary stupid choices? Isn't there a difference between considering the possibility that religion xyz is false, and deciding to go out and rape pillage and plunder like there's no tomorrow? As an atheist, I can tell you, that I have moral standards that would prevent me from that, even though I don't believe in god or the bible.
Armageddon
by sayitsnotso 91 Replies latest watchtower bible
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sayitsnotso
Ynot. The fact I'm here shows I don't agree with everything the WTS says, otherwise I wouldn't be here. However, critial thinking is not the same thing as being independent of God in our thinking as Adam and Eve choose to be.
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JWoods
sayitsnotso - here is the deal:
The JWs are teaching that their God is going to momentarily come down here on earth and KILL EVERYBODY ON EARTH except for them. They teach that "accepting Jesus" or any other religious thought is not good enough. You have to follow the Watchtower Society writings (even though they have been guilty of multiple false prophecies about Armageddon in the past) - or YOU WILL DIE.
That is criminally insane.
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undercover
For Adam and Eve it was not to eat of the tree of knowledge of Good and Bad. He enforced the 'law' because if he did not then he would indeed have lied to them as Satan slandered.
Oh boy...my favorite Bible story - story, that is...
Now the serpent proved to be the most cautious of all the wild beasts of the field that Jehovah God had made. So it began to say to the woman: “Is it really so that God said YOU must not eat from every tree of the garden?” At this the woman said to the serpent: “Of the fruit of the trees of the garden we may eat. But as for [eating] of the fruit of the tree that is in the middle of the garden, God has said, ‘Y OU must not eat from it, no, YOU must not touch it that YOU do not die.’” At this the serpent said to the woman: “Y OU positively will not die. For God knows that in the very day of YOUR eating from it YOUR eyes are bound to be opened and YOU are bound to be like God, KNOWING good and bad.”
What is the prohibition: to not eat the fruit
What is the punishment: death
What does the serpent declare: will not die, will become like God, know good from bad
To the woman he said: “I shall greatly increase the pain of your pregnancy; in birth pangs you will bring forth children, and your craving will be for your husband, and he will dominate you.” And to Adam he said: “Because you listened to your wife’s voice and took to eating from the tree concerning which I gave you this command, ‘You must not eat from it,’ cursed is the ground on your account. In pain you will eat its produce all the days of your life. And thorns and thistles it will grow for you, and you must eat the vegetation of the field. In the sweat of your face you will eat bread until you return to the ground, for out of it you were taken. For dust you are and to dust you will return.”
And Jehovah God went on to say: “Here the man has become like one of us in knowing good and bad, and now in order that he may not put his hand out and actually take [fruit] also from the tree of life and eat and live to time indefinite,—” With that Jehovah God put him out of the garden of E´den to cultivate the ground from which he had been taken. And so he drove the man out and posted at the east of the garden of E´den the cherubs and the flaming blade of a sword that was turning itself continually to guard the way to the tree of life.
What punishment was given: birth pangs; cursed to toil the ground; driven out of the garden of eden
What of the serpent's declarations of not dying and becoming like God, knowing good and bad: both were correct, A&E not dead, became like God, knowing good from bad
Question: who told the lie?
(Note: no where in Genesis, or elsewhere did it say that Adam was meant to live forever. In fact, God had to drive them out before they ate of the tree of everlasting life and could live forever - which is stupid...can't God over-ride what a piece of fruit can do?)
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isaacaustin
Ynot. The fact I'm here shows I don't agree with everything the WTS says, otherwise I wouldn't be here. However, critial thinking is not the same thing as being independent of God in our thinking as Adam and Eve choose to be.
I agree Say. Feel free to PM me if you feel it is less messy than on here too.
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PSacramento
Undercover, the "death" was symbolic it was the death of their innocence and of their DEPENDANT relationship with God.
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JWoods
In fact, God had to drive them out before they ate of the tree of everlasting life and could live forever - which is stupid...can't God over-ride what a piece of fruit can do?)
I always wondered why none of the animals in the garden of eden didn't eat from that tree of life, either -
OK. Back on topic - JW Armageddon (which is insane) makes their Jehovah the worst mass murdered in all history.
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notverylikely
I never said that was okay. I do not see how this is a valid comparison. I'm sorry.
God can kill us (even though we supposedly have free will) because he is bigger and stronger. Taking that to it's logical extension, I should be able to have my way with anyone I am bigger and stronger than.
I feel this is a much more valid point thatn the one about raping a women. I'll have to think more about this. Yet, I'd like to ask you. Was God wrong for killing Adam and Eve? They were created perfect. They were not sinful. Disobienence then was purposeful. If God made the rules, and they didn't play by them, who's fault is it then?
Then they really didn't have free will. God, he WTS, all lying about the free will. It's NOT free if you have to pay for it.
I don't think the bible says he tried to take God's power (maybe I misunderstand what you mean by power), but implicitly it says he did rebell.
So what did he do, exactly? Not implied, what did he do?
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undercover
the "death" was symbolic it was the death of their innocence and of their DEPENDANT relationship with God.
JW doctrine says that Man was meant to live forever but because Adam sinned they were doomed to death, thus eating the fruit meant he died both spiritually and then later physically.
According to the written account...and only the written account...no interpretations, no additions, no nothing... God lied, the serpent told the truth.
But then, this is like arguing over which little pig's house was blown down first by the big bad wolf...
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yknot
First I agree with Isaac..... if wanna PM him, he is a smart and sincere fellow---(even when we disagree interpretationally)
not the same thing as being independent of God in our thinking as Adam and Eve choose to be.
But back to the quote above.....
Eve could not have been that 'independent thinking'.........
She just wasn't in the Garden that long..... A woman's ovulation starts about 14-16 after her period ends....... so for her not to get pregnant while in the Garden means either Adam wasn't obedient to Jehovah's multipy command or she wasn't there long enough to ovulate.
IF you wanna bash your first fleshly father.....have at it......but leave mama alone, she really was DECEIVED.
IF that wasn't the case Jesus would have been a woman........ It really is of no bearing that Eve ate, if Adam hadn't apparently none of us would be 'in this system of things'