144,000 is a vibrational frequency - cameo-d
Where do you come up with that? Just wondering...
Why 144,000 ?
by exwhyzee 74 Replies latest jw friends
-
-
Hadit
Cymatics is fascinating. Just because we cannot fully comprehend something doesn't make it null and void. Our bodies have to be based higher than just physical because chemical messengers cannot travel at the speed required to relay messages to the body.
144,000 cannot be both literal and figurative. It's one or the other. If it's literal then it's all male Jews who are virgins and they are sealed on the EARTH during the great tribulation with the angels holding back the winds of destruction until all are sealed. If it's figurative then the number is invalid to use as the number of ones who are going to heaven. Nowhere in the Bible does it limit the number of people going to heaven. Nowhere does it say that once you have been sealed as one of the 144,000 you can falter and another one chosen. They are confusing (misleading) the grafting of the olive tree which is speaking in reference to the Jews and the Gentiles not ones of the 144,000 being cut off and new ones grafted in.
In other words they make a mess of the 144,000 teaching.
-
cameo-d
Prodigal: "I tell you that they don't use a decimal number system because it doesn't work very well in universal mathematics. Human DNA has twelve strands, not two. "
The religious systems are centered on 10, hence the "decans". (Deacons) Could this be a metaphorical indication that the other ten strands have been corrupted?
Also, I think there is metaphorical content in that two of the twelve tribes were "set apart" and separated out.
"They don't use a decimal number system". Isn't this based on the Pythagorean Tetrad?
-
brotherdan
Cameo, what have you read about this (the whole 144,000 thing with vibrations and frequency and such...?) Just wondering. Curious.
-
cameo-d
Hadit:"Nowhere in the Bible does it limit the number of people going to heaven."
What does it even really say about heaven? Doesn't it say that the Great Crowd stands on a transparent sea? What is heaven exactly? Is it the universe in all it's vastness? Or is it a peaceful, happy, loving state of mind? Are you thinking of heaven as being a physical place, finite?
-
Chalam
I would like to say that nowhere in Revelation is it stated that the 144K are in Heaven.
That is a WT construct.
Syl
Revelation 14:1 (New International Version)
The Lamb and the 144,000
1 Then I looked, and there before me was the Lamb, standing on Mount Zion, and with him 144,000 who had his name and his Father's name written on their foreheads.Hebrews 12:22 (New International Version)
22 But you have come to Mount Zion, to the heavenly Jerusalem, the city of the living God. You have come to thousands upon thousands of angels in joyful assembly
Until Revelation 21, Mount Zion, the New Jerusalem is in heaven at which point it comes down "out of heaven", see verses 2 and 10.
The best way to confuse people is to throw a little truth in with the deception, ask the serpent
Genesis 3:1Blessings,
Stephen
-
ProdigalSon
Hi cameo-d
You're right about Pythagoras... I recently read a great book about him called "Divine Harmony". The number four goes into twelve a lot easier than the number 10, doesn't it?
About the deacons and the decimal system, yes the Bible does say that 10 of the 12 tribes of Israel were lost, to be reunited with the remaining two at the end. This is the reactivation of our DNA, which is the theme of quite a few crop circles of late.
Another way that the Catholic Church has screwed us is by putting us on the Gregorian Calendar of 12 irregular months. The Mayans and other ancients used a 13-month calendar of 28 days each, which is perfectly in harmony with our biological clocks, something women should know very well. This caused us to lose track of time and over the centuries has made us very easy to program.
~PS
-
brotherdan
Why won't any of the new agers answer me about the 144,000 frequency? What's the deal?
-
sabastious
brotherdan, if they do indeed answer you, I would put a large wager on the prediction that you will not like it.
-Sab
-
Chalam
Here's some notes from the ESV Study Bible on the 144, 000.
Rev. 7:1–17 Interlude: The Sealing of God's International Israel. There are three interludes (vv. 1–17; 10:1–11:14; 20:1–6) explaining the place of the saints in the events of Revelation. (As with the Egyptian plagues, the seals, trumpets, and bowls relate only to sinners.) Literal and symbolic approaches differ sharply in interpreting the vision of the “144,000, sealed from every tribe of the sons of Israel” (7:4) and its relation to the next vision of an innumerable multitude “from every nation” (v. 9). Many understand this to be a reference to ethnic (or biological) Israel, and they would view the 144,000 as a symbolic or actual number of Jewish believers brought to faith immediately after Jesus returns and removes the church from the earth before (or during) a seven-year tribulation (this is a “pretribulation rapture” view). However, another common approach understands “Israel” as a reference to the church, the new covenant people of God, and in this view the visions of the 144,000 and of the international multitude are complementary perspectives on the church, believers from every nation including ethnic Israel. They are protected from the Lamb's wrath as his own flock (v. 17) but are exposed to persecution by evil enemies. The 144,000 reappear in 14:1–4, and their description there has a bearing on the interpretation here.
Rev. 7:4–8 The selection and order of the 12 tribes suggest that the 144,000, sealed from every tribe of the sons of Israel have symbolic significance, representing the church (however, see note on vv. 1–17 for an alternative view). These are not Jacob's sons, for Dan is omitted and Manasseh included. They are not the tribes that inherited land in Canaan, for Dan is omitted, Levi (the priestly tribe) is included, and Joseph is listed instead of his son Ephraim. Judah, the tribe of the Messiah (5:5), appears first rather than Reuben, the firstborn. When 7:5–8 is compared with the list of Jacob's sons in Gen. 35:22–26, the promotion of tribes descended from concubines Bilhah and Zilpah (Gad, Asher, Naphtali) over the sons of Leah and Rachel suggests that those once excluded from privilege are now included. The number 12,000reappears in the dimensions of the new Jerusalem (Rev. 21:16). Indeed, the number 144,000 (12 x 12 x 1,000) suggests symbolism here, but that does not necessarily decide the question of whether “Israel” is also a symbol for the church, or is intended to refer to literal, ethnic Israel.
Rev. 7:9 As in 5:4–5, where John first heard an OT title (the Lion of Judah) and then saw its NT fulfillment (the Lamb slain), so here John hears (7:4) the names of the sealed sons of Israel and then sees the NT fulfillment: a countless multitudefrom every nation, from all tribes and peoples and languages (cf. 5:9), whom God has rescued from wrath through the blood of the Lamb (7:14). They stand before the throne and before the Lamb in heaven, worshiping their Savior. They wear the white robes of victorious martyrs (6:11; see note on 2:17). Many who hold to a pretribulation “rapture” of the church think that the two groups of 7:1–8 and 7:9–17 are different (converted Jewish people still suffering on earth invv. 1–8, but the raptured church rejoicing in heaven in vv. 9–17). Others think these are Gentiles converted during the tribulation through the witness of the 144,000 Jewish believers who remain on earth (v. 4). Those who do not hold to a pretribulation rapture usually see vv. 1–8 and vv. 9–17 as the same group, with their suffering in vv. 1–8 turned to joy and reward in vv. 9–17.
Rev. 7:10–12 When the multitude extols God and the Lamb for salvation, angels and living creatures fall down and break out in a sevenfold doxology, almost replicating the sevenfold praise of the Lamb (5:12).
Rev. 7:13–14 An elder identifies the multitude as the ones coming out of the great tribulation. Some understand the definite article (Gk. he, “the”) to refer to one great final period of suffering, but others take this to represent the sufferings of the church throughout all history. The source of their robes' whiteness is the blood of the Lamb(cf. Ps. 51:7). John will later hear that “our brothers” have conquered their accuser by the blood of the Lamb and their testimony (Rev. 12:11).
Rev. 14:1 Mount Zion. Fulfilling Ps. 2:6, the Lamb stands in glory on God's holy hill in heaven (cf. Heb. 12:22), accompanied by his army. The sound of their harps and voices descends from heaven like a waterfall's thundering cascades as they sing “before the throne, the four living creatures,” and “the elders” (Rev. 4:2–8; 7:9–12). The seal on their foreheads (see note on 13:16–17) is the name of the Lamb and of his Father—a token of possession and protection by God, promised to every conqueror in the spiritual war (3:12). Most dispensationalists see these 144,000as the same group mentioned in 7:4: Jewish believers who have trusted in Christ as their Messiah during the great tribulation.
Rev. 14:1–15:8 The vision sequence leading to the seven last plagues (which will be described as “bowls” of God's wrath, 16:1–21) opens and closes with scenes of a heavenly choir singing praise to God (14:1–5; 15:2–4). Between these anthems John sees three angels who announce impending judgment (14:6–13) and three who order and execute harvests (14:15–20). At the center, between the three announcing angels and the three harvesting angels, John sees a seventh figure, one like a son of man, gathering his grain from the earth (14:14). Despite the beast's cruel persecution (ch. 13), these visions (like those inchs. 7 and 10–11) provide reassurance that God and the Lamb rule, and that martyrs already celebrate victory.
Rev. 14:1–5 The Lamb and His Sealed Victors. John's second vision of the 144,000 (cf. 7:1–8) interprets the seal they had received and the protection it provided.
Rev. 14:2 The singers with their harps will reappear beside the sea of glass (15:2–4; see 4:6); their song indicates that they are redeemed.
Rev. 14:3 The new song celebrates God's triumph over sin through the Lamb (5:9; 15:3), just as the Lord's prior victories were celebrated in new songs (Ps. 96:1; 98:1; 144:9). Their song belongs only to those who have experienced the Lamb's redemption (Ps. 107:1–3), into whose salvation angels “long to look” (1 Pet. 1:12). This is another indication that 144,000 should not be taken as a literal number; they represent those who have been redeemed (see notes on Rev. 7:1–17; 7:4–8).
Rev. 14:4–5 have not defiled themselves with women, for they are virgins. The spiritual purity of those who bear the Lamb's name is symbolized by the sexual self-denial that consecrated Israel for the wars that God commanded (cf. Deut. 23:9–11; 1 Sam. 21:5). Although portrayed as celibate males, the 144,000 (Rev. 14:3) signify believers of both sexes who, dying in faith, are gathered as firstfruits for God, foreshadowing a greater harvest. in their mouth no lie was found. They resemble Jesus, theblameless servant of the Lord (cf. Isa. 53:9).
Blessings,
Stephen