Why 144,000 ?

by exwhyzee 74 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  snowbird

  I would like to say that nowhere in Revelation is it stated that the 144K are in Heaven.

  That is a WT construct.

  Syl

  Revelation 14:1 (New International Version)

  The Lamb and the 144,000

  1 Then I looked, and there before me was the Lamb, standing on Mount Zion, and with him 144,000 who had his name and his Father's name written on their foreheads.

  Hebrews 12:22 (New International Version)

  22 But you have come to Mount Zion, to the heavenly Jerusalem, the city of the living God. You have come to thousands upon thousands of angels in joyful assembly

  Until Revelation 21, Mount Zion, the New Jerusalem is in heaven at which point it comes down "out of heaven", see verses 2 and 10.

  The best way to confuse people is to throw a little truth in with the deception, ask the serpent

  Blessings,

  Genesis 3:1

  Stephen

  So, the Lamb and the 144K are standing upon heavenly Jerusalem before it descends to the earth?

  Interesting.

  My aim is not to confuse or deceive, but to challenge WT's dogmatism.

  Blessings to you, also.

  Syl
• 

  Lozhasleft

  Maybe Syl...and of course thats if it IS a literal number ...but it wouldnt seem compatible with God's love after he'd invited us from the nations to be a part of it....and anointed us...?

  Loz x
• 

  JWoods

  My Ferrari has a perfect harmonic balance based on 12 - (cylinders). They are rotated in two banks of 6 at 180 degrees. However, they are not a true boxer as they are paired two by two on six individual crank throws. This does not matter, as two inline sixes are still in perfect primary and secondary balance.

  My Porsche also has a perfect harmonic balance based on 12/2 - (6 cylinders). These are rotated in two banks of 3 at 180 degrees, and are individually paired in opposing (6) crank throws. The Porsche also has 12 spark plugs (2 per cylinder), thus again conforming to the magic 12.

  So, based on these important numerical values, I am sure that these cars will eventually go to automotive heaven.
• 

  snowbird

  Oh, honey child, I believe there are plenty besides the 144K who are anointed!

  It's going to take some time to get that "only 144K who are anointed" teaching out of our heads.

  WT has done us a grievous wrong.

  Syl
• 

  snowbird

  LOL @ JWoods.

  You are an irreverent hoot!

  Syl
• 

  PSacramento

  The body that Jesus had was the one that Peter, John and James saw at Jesus transfiguration, that is why THEY knew it was Jesus in John, but others didn't recognise him at first.

  A body that was fully human in the material sense, he ate, drank, touched and was touched, but was fully divine far more than just "god like".

  Ours will be almost the same, though Jesus is, of course, unique.
• 

  JWoods

  LOL @ JWoods.

  You are an irreverent hoot!

  But what I wrote there will stand up to scientific scrutiny, unlike practically everything else about new-age numerology on this thread.

  Only Undercover's remarks about mescal induced dreamlike states make equal sense.
• 

  snowbird

  The body that Jesus had was the one that Peter, John and James saw at Jesus transfiguration, that is why THEY knew it was Jesus in John, but others didn't recognise him at first.

  A body that was fully human in the material sense, he ate, drank, touched and was touched, but was fully divine far more than just "god like".

  Ours will be almost the same, though Jesus is, of course, unique.

  Some scholars have used Psalm 104 as a basis for suggesting that Adam and Eve were enwrapped in garments of light. When they transgressed God's command, that light was extinguished. That's how they knew they were "naked."

  Interesting stuff about that at the link below. Also, note carefully the conjecture that Adam held out for 3 hours before finally caving in and eating the fruit that was presented by Eve.

  Could this, perhaps, be the reason for the 3 hours of darkness during the Crucifixion?

  http://www.templestudy.com/2008/10/07/the-fall-of-adam-and-eve-in-the-armenian-aprocrypha/

  Syl
• 

  Chalam

  So, the Lamb and the 144K are standing upon heavenly Jerusalem before it descends to the earth?

  Interesting.

  Could be. I guess they are beheaded and go to heaven during the Tribulation? Revelation 20:4

  Certainly the Tribulation will be no fun for those who don't take the mark Revelation 13

  My aim is not to confuse or deceive, but to challenge WT's dogmatism.

  Blessings to you, also.

  Indeed. Dogmatism is fine if you are right but the WT are usually wrong!

  Check out the ESV notes above. They give a well rounded view of the different ways of interpreting passages such as this.

  Blessings as ever in Christ,

  Stephen xx
• 

  snowbird

  Check out the ESV notes above. They give a well rounded view of the different ways of interpreting passages such as this.

  Blessings as ever in Christ,

  Stephen xx

  These are not Jacob's sons, for Dan is omitted and Manasseh included. They are not the tribes that inherited land in Canaan, for Dan is omitted, Levi (the priestly tribe) is included, and Joseph is listed instead of his son Ephraim. Judah, the tribe of the Messiah (5:5), appears first rather than Reuben, the firstborn. When 7:5–8 is compared with the list of Jacob's sons in Gen. 35:22–26, the promotion of tribes descended from concubines Bilhah and Zilpah (Gad, Asher, Naphtali) over the sons of Leah and Rachel suggests that those once excluded from privilege are now included.

  I'm impressed, especially with what I've highlighted in red.

  Sort of like the last becoming first, and the first last ...

  Isn't God awesome?

  Thanks, Stephen.

  Syl