did jesus really succeed where adam failed? (page 10)

tec

In Jewish thought the Devil is a Literary device, a protagonist, and not the way christians have been taught to think about Satan.

I know. But did they think that way two, three or four thousand years ago? Or is that a development?

Tammy

There were early beliefs in very real demons and angels among some parts of Judaism and it seems a more educated group was also present who looked at these stories as their kindred fables and lore. Not much different than today with Christian groups who hold different views of a single account or story like Genesis. The view of it being lore was fairly universal in Judaism by the time of their release from Babylon, that experience really reshaped their whole religious and spiritual structure as can be read in the Talmud and the Midrash stories. Great story telling with its exaggerated figures and hyperbole was practiced by all of the great Jewsih Sages and Rabbis, Jesus included.

factfinder

Why DID Adam choose to eat of the fruit since he knew he would die if he did so?

AGuest

Why DID Adam choose to eat of the fruit since he knew he would die if he did so?

Because he really thought he WOULD be like God, dear Factfinder (peace to you!)... KNOWING... good (life)... AND bad (death). Meaning, he didn't believe death would KEEP a hold on him... but that,like God... he, too, would "conquer" death. He knew death did not have a hold on the Most Holy One of Israel (as did Christ also KNOW this, and so gave HIS life - that One KNEW God would not him see the pit but WOULD allow him to come back. To resurrect himself. Which is why he was given the "keys"... to the "world" of the dead (/Sheol/Hades).

Adham thought HE would be able to bring himself back, too. Because the right to do so is what he PURCHASED... with OUR lives. He sold US... TO sin and death... in order to have that right. Unfortunately, the one who struck the bargain with him... didn't have the AUTHORITY to make that deal. And so, rather than "conquer" death... Adham became a victim of It, also.

But he will be brought back. Just not when HE thought he would be... or under the same circumstances.

I hope this helps and, again, I bid you peace!

A slave of Christ,

SA

designs

In the Jewish Haggadah Adam is created from the elements of Heaven and Earth, he is worshipped as a god, viceregent of earth, and attended to by a host of angels who dance for him as well. He originally stretches from heaven to earth, the early forms of hyperbole show up in these accounts, and then shrinks to his human form. The 'sin of eating the fruit' is not the original sin of western christian thought but is part of his humanness similar to when he puts on clothes for the first time. In the stories of Adam he now sits at the gate of heaven waiting for his children to arrive.

There are entirely different moral and ethical points drawn from the Adam and Eve stories in Judaism that any person interested in the Bible should read.

AGuest

that any person interested in the Bible should read.

Well, then, that excludes ME, dear designs (peace to you!). NO interest whatsoever, truly... and will be glad, indeed REJOICE when the day comes (and it will arrive) when NO ONE is interested in doing so. Because they will no longer have the NEED. Because what they DO need to know... will be written on their hearts... and not in some book.

I have personally reached that point and actually consider it a bit of a chore to even have to refer to it; it's an onerous... and unreliable... compilation. Until then, however, there are those who don't believe a thing... unless they SEE it writing. They are called... unbelievers. And there's whole bunch of them out there.

Again, I bid you peace... and ears to hear when the Spirit and the Bride say to YOU:

"Come! Take 'life's water'... FREE!"

A slave of Christ, the One and ONLY Word of God,

SA

Ding

<< Why DID Adam choose to eat of the fruit since he knew he would die if he did so? >>

He didn't believe God.

Satan told Eve she wouldn't die, and they both bought into the lie.

designs

Yes well some people just don't like history or historical underpinnings to Belief systems, anthropology etc..

AGuest

He didn't believe God. Satan told Eve she wouldn't die, and they both bought into the lie.

This is inaccurate, dear Ding (the greatest of love and peace to you!). If this were true, that they both bought into the lie, then Adham, too, was deceived. He was not. Eve was deceived into believing she would NOT die. Adham knew he WOULD die. He just didn't believe he would STAY dead, but be able to resurrect himself... just as the "last Adham" was able to do.

Unfortunately, the one who struck this bargain with him... the one to whom he (Adham) sold his progeny in exchange for the "keys" so that he COULD come back... didn't have the authority to give Adham such keys. And so, in essence, the Most Holy One of Israel, JAH of Armies... simply changed the locks. As a result, Adham... and we, his progeny... are STILL "bound" and "chained" by Death.

Praise JAH, there is One, however, who DOES have the keys... and so, after having first brought himself back (John 2:19)... will bring us back, too (John 6:54)! Because of HIM... neither the first OR second deaths have any authority over... or hold on... us, His Body... and the TRUE Temple of God that he will raise up! (Revelation 20:6; Ephesians 2:21-22; 1 Corinthians 3:16)!

Yes well some people just don't like history or historical underpinnings to Belief systems, anthropology etc..

To the contrary, dear designs (again, peace to you!)... I LOVE history... and learning about the historical underpinings to Belief systems... particularly the so-called "christian" one! Given that history, there is absolutely NO way any of these can belong to Christ. They follow... and thus belong... to men. Some better than others, but all unfaithful. Because if they WERE faithful... they wouldn't need a book, or a law written in ink... or buildings... or hymals... or all of the other "trappings" belonging to THIS world... in order to render sacred service to and worship the Most Holy One of Israel, JAH of Armies. They would need only ONE thing: His Son and Christ, the Holy One of Israel and Holy Spirit, JAHESHUA MISCHAJAH. Nothing more... and nothing less.

I bid you both peace... and ears to hear when the Spirit and the Bride say to YOU:

"Come! Take 'life's water'... FREE!"

Your servant and a slave of Christ,

SA

designs

There is one point of coming up with one's own belief system and then there is a discussion of what a group or religion believes at a given point in time which this discussion was attempting to do.

did jesus really succeed where adam failed?

Share this