did jesus really succeed where adam failed? (page 5)

notverylikely

Edited because I really don't want to get involved.

Sigh! May you all have peace. The Most Holy One of Israel NEVER leaves Himself with out witness... and so no one is speculating. I have shared what I have heard... as I received it from the Holy One of Israel and Holy Spirit, my Lord, JAHESHUA MISCHAJAH, who is the Son and Christ of the MOST Holy One of Israel, JAH of Armies. According to THAT One... when the Most Holy One of Israel FIRST stated the words "From every tree of the garden you may... but as for the tree of the knowledge of good and bad you must not eat from it for in the day you eat from it you will positively die..." Eve had not yet even come into existence. Is his word true? Judge for yourselves:

"And JaHVeH God proceeded to take the man and settle him in the garden of E´den to cultivate it and to take care of it. And JaHVeH God also laid this command upon the man: 'From every tree of the garden you may eat to satisfaction. But as for the tree of the knowledge of good and bad you must not eat from it, for in the day you eat from it you will positively die.' And JaHVeH God went on to say: “It is not good for the man to continue by himself. I am going to make a helper for him, as a complement of him.”Genesis 2:16-18

According to THAT One, the Most Holy One Himself gave the instruction to Eve. Is his word true? Judge for yourselves:

“Is it really so that God said YOU must not eat from every tree of the garden?” At this the woman said to the serpent: “Of the fruit of the trees of the garden we may eat. But as for [eating] of the fruit of the tree that is in the middle of the garden, God has said, ‘Y OU must not eat from it, no, YOU must not touch it that YOU do not die.’” Genesis 3:1, 2

Seriously. Folks should at least bother to read the account before criticizing those who have... or who have heard from One who was there. Some should also take as to the phrasing they use as some things STILL smack of that tired old WTBTS "lingo". For instance, calling "speculation" those things they have absolutely NO knowledge of... or understanding about.

Again, may you all have peace!

A slave of Christ,

SA

simon17

I always thought the whole idea of the "ultimate sacrifice" was a bit sketchy. No one lost anything. He got to be dead for a few days. Yes, I'm sure being tortured is not pleasant. But compared to the near eternity of his pre-human existance, one would think this would be a drop in the bucket. It would be like a mother having to endure the pin prick of a needle in order to give her dying child a life-sustaining blood transfusion. No brainer.

I always thought it would have been much more imressive if the perfect someone gave their life in place of Adam in a real and final sense (not necessarily Jesus, an angel would do). So once they died, that was it. No coming back. THAT is true love and true sacrifice. To exchange your existence for someone elses. Not to exchange 3 days of your infinite time. Especially if you KNEW that you were being resurrected. I think Abraham gets more credit... being willing to sacrifice your son on the HOPE of a resurrection took some damn balls (even though I think he and the commandment were both insane for that situation to have ever been broached!).

Mad Dawg

Actually, if one reads the account in Genesis carefully, it says that God told Adam not to eat the fruit. It does not say that Eve was told anything of the sort. Adam likely told her what God had told him. God holds Adam far more accountable than Eve. Blaming Eve is misogynostic and wrong. Eve was tricked, Adam chose.

Regarding the OP, succeeded or failed at what? Was Adam supposed to be our saviour? If so, then to achieve this he would have to have not sinned - hence no need for a saviour. What did Jesus do that Adam failed to do?

xchange

Anyone who reads the account in Genesis and comes to any conclusion IS speculating. Like trying to speculate on the markets. Good luck. Unless you hear Warren Buffet's 'voice' guiding you.

Mad Dawg

Moshe, what is the Jewish take on this? I am most genuinely interested in hearing it.

factfinder

Adam lived in a paradise and disobeyed Jehovah. He had everything given to him.

Jesus lived in an oppressed nation being ruled by pagan Rome. He had to let himself be wrongly accused, arrested, and tortured to death.

Yet he remained faithful to Jehovah until death. So yes Jesus succeeded where Adam failed.

factfinder

The Jewish take? All of my family (except for one jw brother and sister in law) are Jewish. They believe Adam and Eve are nothing more then a fable and there is no original sin.

simon17

Adam lived in a paradise and disobeyed Jehovah. He had everything given to him.

Eh except of course the experiences, existence, etc of Jesus. Jesus KNEW what would be the exact consequences of everything he would do after watching billions of years of how things operate.

Its like telling a 2 year old in perfect conditions to not touch a hot stove because it will burn you. Then the 2 year old touches it and get burned. Then you yell at her and say "look at mom... she's been stressed all day and she STILL went the entire time preparing dinner without touching the damn stove! Thats how its done!"

AGuest

That was a mouthful :)

And a beautiful, mouthful, dear tec (and the greatest of love and peace to you, dear one!). It is SO interesting to me that, while spouting "freedom of speech" and what not, so many wish to shut up freedom of speech for others. I understand that some don't believe the Source that I profess. So what? Who says they have to? I find, however, that one of the greatest differences between "us" and "them" (besides the fact that they usually don't have a clue as to what the Bible actually does day, though they argue and argue as if they do)... is that "we" don't care as much about what "they" don't believe... as much as they care about what "we" do believe. And why is this? Because they really are intrigued.

Perhaps Peter's words to those who were scattered will help them understand why I state what I do... and why, try as they might, they can't look away:

" Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord [Jesus] Christ, for according to his great mercy he gave us a new birth to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, to an incorruptible and undefiled and unfading inheritance. It is reserved in the heavens for YOU , who are being safeguarded by God’s power through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last period of time. In this fact YOU are greatly rejoicing, though for a little while at present, if it must be, YOU have been grieved by various trials, in order that the tested quality of YOUR faith, of much greater value than gold that perishes despite its being proved by fire, may be found a cause for praise and glory and honor at the revelation of [Jesus] Christ. Though YOU never saw him, YOU love him. Though YOU are not looking upon him at present, yet YOU exercise faith in him and are greatly rejoicing with an unspeakable and glorified joy, as YOU receive the end of YOUR faith, the salvation of YOUR souls.

Concerning this very salvation a diligent inquiry and a careful search were made by the prophets who prophesied about the undeserved kindness meant for YOU . They kept on investigating what particular season or what sort of [season] the spirit in them was indicating concerning Christ when it was bearing witness beforehand about the sufferings for Christ and about the glories to follow these. It was revealed to them that, not to themselves, but to YOU, they were ministering the things that have now been announced to YOU through those who have declared the good news to YOU with holy spirit sent forth from heaven. Into these very things angels are desiring to peer."

If, then, the angels can't turn away, even though such things aren't revealed to THEM... how are those among mere men to look away? They can't. Unfortunately, they don't know how to just look... until such time as they actually SEE.

I bid you peace, dear one... always!

YOUR servant, sister, and fellow slave of Christ,

SA

did jesus really succeed where adam failed?

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