Ummmm, okay, dear designs (peace to you!), sure. Didn't know there were such... ummm... "boundaries" here, but... okay. No worries on MY part!
Again, peace to you!
A slave of Christ,
SA
did jesus really succeed where adam failed?
by booby 102 Replies latest watchtower bible
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factfinder
Aguest- thank you and peace to you too!
We know Adam was not decieved. He knew he would die if he ate the fruit from that tree.
You say he thought he would be able to bring himself back to life. On what basis would he think this? He knew Eve was lied to.
What did he know about the Devil?
He told Eve the warning God gave him, so he believed it. By why would he think he could bring himself back to life ? He knew what Eve was told by the serpent was all lies.
Thank you!
Designs- I was born and raised Jewish before become a witness and my family are all Jewish ( except for 1 JW brother and his wife). I am so amazed at how pagan Jewish beleifs and teachings are. I have no interest in Jewish religious ideas at all.
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AGuest
Aguest- thank you and peace to you too!
You are quite welcome, dear Factfinder, and the greatest of love and peace to you, as well!
We know Adam was not decieved. He knew he would die if he ate the fruit from that tree.
Yes.
You say he thought he would be able to bring himself back to life. On what basis would he think this?
That was the thing: knowing good (life) and bad (death)... but not remaining dead. This is the ONLY way he could have been "like" God. Many believe it is knowing good and bad (i.e., what is good and what is bad). But, obviously, Satan knew what "was" bad, right? I mean, he knew he was lying, which is bad, per se. So, was the thing for Adham to be "like" God... AND Satan... knowing what is good and what is bad? Or LIKE God... KNOWING good... and bad?
He knew Eve was lied to.
Yes!! And if he KNEW this... then he "knew"... as most people think the term means... bad. Lying is bad. And he knew Satan had lied. So WHY eat if you already KNOW good and bad? Because this wasn't the "knowing"... or the "good and bad"... that would make him "like" God.
What did he know about the Devil?
There is the erroneousness assumption that Adham and Eve had never had any communication with the Adversary before this time. Prior to that time, they knew the Adversary's purpose... which was to guard the garden and all that was in it... from the "wicked spirit forces" that were seeking the "seed". That "seed" had been hidden IN Adham... then Eve (who came OUT of Adham). It was during this time that the Adversary noticed that Eve would look at the tree from time to time... initially out of benign curiosity. But just as James states, "each one is DRAWN OUT... by his OWN desire." So, the Adversary just simply exploited Eve's desire to eat from the tree's fruit... for FOOD. Eve trusted the Adversary because she never had reason previously NOT to. So, when he told her she would NOT die, she really had no basis for NOT believing him... other than it was contrary to what the Most Holy One of Israel Himself has told her.
ADHAM, on the other hand... a Son... wanted more than just food. He wasn't concerned about the nutritional properties of the tree's fruit - he wanted the POWER he thought eating from the tree would give him. Power... over death. Being a SON... he SHOULD have known what the Adversary was doing... drawing him to sin against God... but he didn't CARE. Why care if you are sinning against God... if you can become LIKE God? Will not God be the One who has to worry about sinning against YOU? THAT is what got Adham into trouble. And because this power that he THOUGHT he would receive came with a very heavy PRICE... he gave "all that he had" for it. His wife... and his progeny.
He told Eve the warning God gave him, so he believed it.
Actually, Adham giving Eve the warning is a false WTBTS teaching. God Himself also told Eve. But He had told Adham long before He told Eve, and many times before, so he knew Eve was lied to and would die, yes. But he thought he would be LIKE God... and so he could bring them back. Himself first, then Eve.
By why would he think he could bring himself back to life ? He knew what Eve was told by the serpent was all lies.
Consider what was said, dear one: "You will not die." Did he know Eve would die? Yes. The issue was dying, however. It was STAYING dead. The Advesary lied to Eve in that he told her she wouldn't die. That was a lie... and Adham knew it. BUT... HE had bargained that he and she not STAY dead... but live... although NOW knowing bad (death). HE bargained for the power to "know" bad... but it not to have even a temporary hold on him.
To understand this, look to the Christ! He died, but death did not... could not... hold him! HE... was given power and authority to bring himself back. Why? Because... HE was OBEDIENT, even to death [of his flesh]. He made a REPLY to the "one" that was taunting the Father... that "skin in behalf of skin and ALL that a man has he WILL give... for his own life/flesh/soul."
This is what Adham SHOULD have attained to... the response HE should have provided... and as a result HE would have ultimately received that gift. IF... he had been OBEDIENT. But... because he was DISOBEDIENT... and tried to TAKE what wasn't HIS (yet, but could have been, by inheritance)... rather than wait for it to be GIVEN to him, conferred upon him... by GOD... he lost it. Because he tried to BUY it... with our lives... from another... and not God.
Thank you!
Again, you are QUITE welcome! Peace to you!
YOUR servant, as I am servant to ALL those of the Household of God, Israel... and those who go with... and a slave of Christ,
SA