did jesus really succeed where adam failed? (page 6)

AGuest

Jesus lived in an oppressed nation being ruled by pagan Rome. He had to let himself be wrongly accused, arrested, and tortured to death.

While this statement is true, dear FF (peace to you!), I would like to expound upon it a bit because it doesn't tell the WHOLE story. Yes, my Lord had to let himself be wrongly accused, arrested, etc. What many MISS, however... because of all the "stuff" in the Bible... is what he actually DID: he provided a RESPONSE... the ACCUSER. That one said... of ALL of us: "skin in behalf of skin and ALL that a man has... he WILL give... in behalf of his flesh/life/soul." Meaning, put ENOUGH pressure on any one of us... and we will fold... like a house of cards.

My Lord didn't only suffer by being persecuted... arrested... tortured. He suffered... by the sins he took into his body, NONE of which most of us could... or WOULD take. He suffered in this way... for OUR sins... not HIS. Why? Because... he... wanted... to. He loved us... that much. Sure, we might give our lives for a child or spouse or other loved one. We might, if given the chance, take our sister's cancer so that she no longer suffers. We might... take a bullet (or spear) for our neighbor... or our countryman. But most of us wouldn't take ANY of this... for our enemies.

Yet, he did.

At ANY time, however, he COULD have did what the Adversary accused his brothers of: cursed God... and just died. Give it all up. Just say, "Nope, sorry, it's too much. I can't take any more." And he did come close ("Father, if you will... remove this cup from me"). But... he stuck it out... to death... NOT because he wanted to... but because he LOVED... the Father... us... faith Israel... even unfaithful Israel and his enemies, both Jewish and Roman.

We so trivialize what he did. We don't know the half of it. He didn't do it to be great. He did it... out of love. For the Father... who loved the world SO much... US... SO much... that He was willing to give His Son for us. That Son... loved us... because the One HE loved... loved us.

But at any point he COULD have said, "To hell with all of them. Sure, I'll take those kingdoms. I'll turn that stone into bread. I'll use my God-given powers... for ME. And all of YOU can go straight to..."

But he didn't. He could have. But he didn't. And I SO love him for that. For myself, yes... but mostly for my children. Because of HIM... THEY may be able to live forever, indeed perhaps never die. Acts 2:39

For that... I will make all kinds of fools of myself.

I bid you peace!

A "foolish" slave of Christ,

SA

tec

Peace to you also, Shelby, thank you Also to the others here, (especially Booby, whose thread got too deep for him) and NVL - whose edit is appreciated.

Tammy

Mad Dawg

FF, what defines success for Adam? Are you suggesting that Adam and Jesus had the same mission? You do point out an interesting contrast in their lives. But it seems like saying Yasser Arafat succeeded where Moses failed. Yasser entered the Promised Land. Wouldn't it be more accurate to say that Jesus cleaned up Adam's mess?

AGuest

Yes, my sincere apologies (if necessary) to dear booby. The greatest of love and peace to you... and please feel free to get us all back "on topic"!

Your servant and a slave of Christ,

SA

OnTheWayOut

Booby, it was a good opening post. The super-sensitive believers got involved. (Sorry, I fueled them a bit with an opposing view.)
Now, the argument is about how you can't go beyond what God provided in Genesis and defining what is "speculation."

Edited because I really don't want to get involved.

That may be the best reply.

PSacramento

Adam and Eve decided that they didn't need God, they choose to live away from God to "do it their way".

Their sin of "pride" ( I don't need anyone but me), cost them and as well all know, that "sin" was indeed passed on to all of us because we all do indeed believe that we don't need God and that we can do it "our way".

No offence to Frank, but he was wrong.

Jesus is the path back to God living in Us and Us doing it the right way, together, in union, with God and Jesus and the HS guiding US.

Did he succeed?

Yes, and this very discussion is evidence of that.

tec

OTWO, nobeliever has been super-sensitive on this thread. Some have stated opinions, some have asked questions, some have done their best to answer Booby's question. I do think we can handle your opposing view ;)

It is a good question, Booby, and a good opening post. In this instance, I just think that a conclusion can be reached based on the scriptures themselves, regarding whether Adam did it out of deep love for his wife or not.

Tammy

THE GLADIATOR

Part of the original question by booby:

Was it not ultimately the decision Adam had to make; remain faithful and lose his soul mate, the love of his life (I would assume), or transgress to keep her and stand by her. And standing by her was a mandate of the marital vows, no?

Let's go along with the story of Adam & Eve for the sake of posterity. Adam had never met any other human. He had zero experience of life; the mentality of a 5 year old. He was bored, no TV, no books, no bible to study. Lonely, sex starved and unfulfilled.

Suddenly he is is given a present; a beautiful naked woman to play with. He's keen to please her, cos hell hath no fury like a woman scorned and even Adam would have quickly worked out this great truth of life. He stands by her and shows love, loyalty and gratefulness for his new toy - Eve.

God, who made the fruit trees, Adam & Eve, calls this sin and plunges the world into 6000 years of suffering and death because Adam ate an apple. He was too naive to firstly eat from the tree of life. We live and learn I guess. Or in Adams case we die and don't get a chance to learn.

What's the moral of this story. There isn't one!

AGuest

you can't go beyond what God provided in Genesis

There are at least two erroneous assumptions in this statement (more, actually, but we'll stick to two for the sake of this response). First, that God "provided" what was written in Genesis... and that alone. Second, that one can't go beyond what is written there (even if more is written elsewhere).

The comment concerns me, however, because it is SO rooted in WTBTS doctrine and tradition. It's based on a comment by Paul to "not go beyond the things written." Yet, John obviously went FAR "beyond" what was written (at that time) when he wrote about what he received in his revelation. Be that as it may, what is being missed is the fulfillment of prophecy... which are clearly stated "in the Bible" (for those who need to see it in writing): the outpouring of holy spirit... and the gifts associated with that... and the Law being written on the HEART... and not in some book.

The one who wrote the Genesis account, including what occurred in the garden in Eden... which one was JOSEPH (and not Moses, but even so)... wrote 1,000s of years after those events. He wasn't there (nor was Moses, for those who wish to believe he wrote the account - he did not), so how did HE know what took place? Who told HIM? It is the same One who has told me. I have not lied about that, I do not lie about it... and I will not lie about it. Because the glory is his... the One who was there... just as the Bible STATES... he who is the Tree of Life... the True Vine, the Root of Jesse, Sprout!. It is not mine.

Why this MATTERS, however, is because even when leaving the WTBTS so many still cling to their erroneous ways, their hypocrisy, their false teachings... and their lack of understanding. Some here don't KNOW these things... because they weren't TAUGHT these things... because those who claimed the responsibility TO teach... didn't know. So, instead they TAUGHT (1) that to come to the Father you had to go through THEM... and (2)worse, that neither the Father NOR the Son speaks to those who belong to them. EVEN THOUGH THE BIBLE STATES DIFFERENTLY.

So, believe what you will - it's there, in writing, if you need to see it so. Me? I'd rather simply get it from the horse's mouth... because earthling man's versions and speculations as to what took place and why... are usually quite inaccurate.

He stands by her and shows loyalty and gratefulness for his new toy - Eve.

Would that that had been the case, dear Glad (peace to you!). Everything would have been different. Why? Because, again, Adam WAS perfect - he had NO sin or death IN him. And so, he COULD have offered HIS life in exchange for Eve's. But... he didn't. Instead, he showed his TRUE "nature"... which was that, as the Adversary has accused us all, "skin in behalf of skin and ALL that a man has he WILL give... in behalf of his [own] life/flesh/soul." Adam... tried to "give" Eve. Rather than step up and be ACCOUNTABLE... he threw her butt under the bus... thinking that it would get HIM off the hook. It did not.

I bid you all peace... and ears to HEAR... when the Spirit and the Bride say to YOU:

"Come! Take 'life's water'... FREE!"

That 'water' comes from ONE SOURCE - the One who IS the Life... from out of whose innermost parts such water flows... the Holy One of Israel and Holy Spirit, JAHESHUA MISCHAJAH, who is the Son and Christ of the MOST Holy One of Israel... JAH of Armies.

A slave of Christ,

SA

Deputy Dog

That's why the Church is called the "Bride" of Christ.

Still no comment?

Rev 19:7

did jesus really succeed where adam failed?

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