Some thoughts on unions (page 12)

moshe

Our good wages of the past were based on cheap oil, but due to current energy prices our wages will end up going down as a result.

I have worked union and non-union jobs. About 25 years in the IBEW as a journeyman wireman on jobs from schools to nuclear powerplants and about 15 years as a UAW maintenance electrician for Chrysler. All in all, the IBEW guys were better workers, but they lacked the detailed technical knowledge the UAW guys had. I received over 800 hours of classrooom training while at Chrysler and the IBEW boys are lucky to get a night school 20 hour skills upgrade from the union once every 2 or 3 years and the slugs never do go back to take extra classes.

In nonunion jobs( I've seen about 10 of them) it was all about who you know. I was a good worker on a co-gen cement plant job in Brooksville, FL in the mid-80's. We had a helper electrician in his 20's on the job. One weekend the superintendent's boat sunk at the ocean pier ( leaky drain plug) and the helper guy was at the pier fishing when he heard what happened. he went home with his truck and came back with 2 barrels and an air compressor- 2 hours later he had the boat refloated and on the shore for the boss. Come monday, I had a new foreman- him. I was working for a guy who had less than one years worth of knowledge. The whole job was run like that. Friends and family were first. I lasted less than 4 months, before I switched over to GE as an I&C tech to set up the co-gen generator. fast forward 3 years- the powerplant part of the cement plant never did work right and was shut down- faulty construction and substandard materials doomed it. The cement plant has had major problems due to shortcuts on parts- poor inspections never caught the bad work. If it had been a union contractor I am sure it would have turned out OK.

Nepotism and cronyism cause problems in all companies- and in the public sector it becomes impossible to lay off friends and family, so the payroll becomes bloated, while bosses are loathe to streamline or outsource work, because it means somebody's kid or nephew will get put out of work.

FYI- Disney World in Florida has used contruction trades for over 40 years and they have special work agreements with the unions. Disney can't afford slipshod work that could kill a guest to the park. They can't afford the downtime either.

garyneal

Stupid IE 9, can't post here with it.

Switched to Firefox...

Well, I guess all I can say is that while I seem to be doing okay (for the moment), I do have to agree with the others on certain points too.

The problem I see with the whole premise of not paying people a living wage is that it hides the real cost of things.

The cheap goods we buy at Wal-mart have a hidden cost of increased need for state and government programs. The health insurance is crummy and even if it wasn't, Wal-mart wages are low enough so that their employees qualify for government assistance. THAT'S US the taxpayer's.

Sometimes I wonder if the government would not do well to consider taxing companies based on the amount of services their employees require due their need for public assistance. If the cost for things are too expensive, perhaps a little deflation is in order.

beksbks

It's a real conundrum Gary, I just can't see that lowering our standards and paying sub standard wages is going to make anything better. That's been a trend for the last 30+ years, and I see us in the worst shape we've been in since the Depression.

moshe

The problem I see with the whole premise of not paying people a living wage is that it hides the real cost of things.

Agreed!

Take that "earned income tax credit" for minimum wage workers who have kids. Due to low wages they pay no taxes anyway and then qualify for a $3000 tax refund from the IRS, which in effect boosts them up closer to $10/hr. Who pays this wage subsidy to businesses? It's not the business that's for sure.

beksbks

Take that "earned income tax credit" for minimum wage workers who have kids. Due to low wages they pay no taxes anyway and then qualify for a $3000 tax refund from the IRS, which in effect boosts them up closer to $10/hr. Who pays this wage subsidy to businesses? It's not the business that's for sure.

Exactly!! I often think the same of the credit for mortgage interest. So the bank gets my interest payment, and the gov gives it back??? Even though it's pretty nice to have, it still seems like a win for the banks.

beksbks

You know Moshe that EIC, in actuality it's an admission that when those in the lower/middle class get money in thier pocket, they spend it and keep the economy rolling. That's the whole point. Just like GWB's stimulus checks, only given to those making less than 72k. Because that is who drives the economy.

Sam Whiskey

LOL....

Villa, your mommy called looking for you..... she said to send you home, your SpagettiO's are getting cold.

Run along now....

FlyingHighNow

Agreed!

Take that "earned income tax credit" for minimum wage workers who have kids. Due to low wages they pay no taxes anyway and then qualify for a $3000 tax refund from the IRS, which in effect boosts them up closer to $10/hr. Who pays this wage subsidy to businesses? It's not the business that's for sure.

This is partially true. The federal tax gets waived if the worker does not work full time and doesn't choose to pay tax up front during the year. But consider this: minimum wage workers pay state taxes, city taxes, county taxes, property taxes even when they rent and they pay social security taxes. They also pay sales taxes and car tag taxes and all the taxes you pay on products that are taxed. Most of them pay for all of their own medical care because the parents will not qualify for medicaid.