Does anybody still believe in God and the Bible?

by tornapart 218 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  Sulla

  NomadSoul, it's an hypothesis. My guess is that a greater proportion of JWs, upon leaving the JWs, become atheists than the proportion of those who leave Christian churches. I'm sure there are plenty of people who go from some Christian faith or other to atheism, but my anecdotal experiences is that JWs are much more likely to make that move than anybody else.

  Probably, the best test would be to compare adult converts to various faiths over time. These would be people who took religion seriously enough at some point to convert, so they would be a good sample. You could build an interesting transition matrix, right? Where they start, where they move to, then where they go if they leave that church.

  That said, it seems like a very difficult data set to get hold of.

  Still, I can think of any number of actively religious Protestants who converted to Catholicism; I'm not sure we have much experience with people who are active in any religion converting to JW-ism. But, I could be wrong.
• 

  discreetslave

  Reading my earlier posts on this site make me bust out laughing. When I first broke free from the WT I went running towards being a saved Christian.
  I do love and appreciate my christian friends but I no longer see things the way they do. Now this video sums up my feelings about the Bible.

  www.youtube.com/watch?v=SGkgmU9vG_o
• 

  tec

  If you like where you are, don't research. Once the critical thinking skills set in, you may not be able to turn them off. I know some people still hold onto their belief, while denying the bible is infallible or the word of god. I cannot grasp such a concept though. It leaves one in quite the pickle. For instance---there is absolutely no way that a worlwide deluge took place 4000 years ago. It didn't happen. Okay---so if I still want to believe---then I'll call it allegorical---that fixes it. Except didn't Jesus refer to that flood as though it was true? Hmmm. Okay, maybe he wasn't ready to let mankind in on the little joke. I'll dismiss that aspect of his teaching.

  I personally think the story of Noah and the flood is true. Just perhaps not as literal as it is written as being. Sort of the same as a more complex (and older) event told in simpler terms for people to grasp. Like in the garden of eden... a simple story with a deeper, spiritual meaning. The trees symbolized what they stood for... tree of life = life. Eating the fruit = knowing/e x periencing whatever that tree stood for (eat from the tree of life; have life). Same as Christ said to eat from Him to have life.

  In any case, I am not locked into one way of thinking about it. This OR that. There are many things that could have happened, and many ways the story could have been told and for what purpose... all without losing any of the meaning behind it.

  Peace,

  Tammy
• 

  Quendi

  Thanks, tornapart, for initiating this thread. You are asking deep questions and they are the right ones as far as I'm concerned. My own journey since leaving the WTS has taken me to unexpected places. That is only natural, I suppose, since leaving the black-and-white world of Jehovah's Witnesses and re-entering the technicolor world that is reality. My belief in God and Christ is intact. My belief in the Bible is still strong, but it is undergoing an unexpected evolution.

  What exactly does it mean that the Bible is "inspired"? How were the books in its currently accepted catalogue selected? If God inspired the sixty-six books currently accepted, then what was the reason behind such books as the Song of Solomon and Philemon? The former is nothing more than Hebrew love poetry composed with consummate skill but imparting no useful knowledge about God and His purposes. The latter seems nothing more than a warm personal letter to a fellow believer about a legal matter. And why does Jude quote from the book of Enoch in his "inspired" letter when that book is not considered canonical? And how is it that the apostle Paul references a rendering of the eighteenth psalm that is found in the Septuagint version of the Bible but not the original Hebrew?

  I wonder where I can go for credible answers to these and other questions. I have rejected just about all the WTS writings on the Bible for obvious reasons. But that doesn't mean that I want to rush into the embrace of secularists and humanists who reject the existence of God or believe that He is completely detached from his creation, throwing it entirely upon its own resources. I want to believe that God still loves us and will eventually set matters straight on our planet in a way that will benefit and bless all humanity. So scriptures like Genesis 22:18 and John 3:16 are still relevant to me.

  My involvement with Jehovah's Witnesses gave me a worldview that I now have rejected as being unnatural, untruthful and harmful. Rejecting it has opened a void in my life that I am seeking to fill, but I want to do so in a way that will be in line with as much of the truth as I can perceive and understand. That is a daunting task, and I confess that there have been times over these last two years where I have felt totally lost. Nevertheless, I am determined to continue this journey because I believe that is the right thing to do. I want to do more than find satisfying explanations. I want real and truthful answers to my questions. I may not get those either, but I believe I will certainly benefit myself and those I love by seeking them.

  Quendi
• 

  Sulla

  It is interesting, Quendi, to read your comments. Your thoughtful and considerate approach strikes me as the right one. The questions you are asking, after a couple years out of the JWs, are precisely at step one: If we say these books are inspired, what does that mean? Where can we find answers? Will I find what I seek?

  Punkofnice and slimboyfat have current threads on this feeling of complete lost-ness upon leaving the JWs, about some important things, anyway. It's like a giant emptiness left where JW-ism was, and important questions echo back and forth without anything to stop them. It's hard work, figuring out what to salvage and what to destroy from the old beliefs. And it's made more difficult by the Manichean worldview the JWs teach which, if we are to throw out, surely means we find and keep something that was good from the JWs.

  The temptation, it seems to me, is to keep only that Manichaeism. JW-ism is, then, a cancer and everything it touched is also a cancer: burn it out. Their way of reading scripture was wrong? Don't read differently, burn scripture. Their interpretation of God is mistaken? Do away with the entire idea of God. They teach you to disregard your personal needs and goals? Idolize them, instead.

  Too many XJWs wind up keeping some of the more unplesant parts: the black-white approach, a ready hatred of Christianity, simplistic argumentation, conspiracy theories, tribalism. They do it because it is the part of the religion that felt the best. Approaching the wreckage of the post-JW soul is a delicate task, for sure. Good luck.
• 

  cofty

  Sulla your characterisation may true in some cases but I think it is simplistic. For many I have known atheism was not the visceral reaction you describe but the end result of a long process of of discovery.

  It is far more common for peopel to initially hope that not all their beliefs were in error. It is a more natural reaction to hope that at least there is a god and the bible is his word . Some even look closer to home and investigate Bible Student groups who still look to Russell's writings. Others find a home in evangelical christianity or small house groups where they can preserve many of their foundational beliefs.

  Only by rigorously applying critical thinking without fear will a person move on to a more rational world view.

  To suggest that JW belief is not far from atheism is a very bizarre statement. Having said that, I do agree that JWs are all conspiracy theorists.

  We Were All Conspiracy Theorists Once
• 

  frankiespeakin

  I don't believe that the bible should be taken literally, but I do feel that it tells us a lot, just like the Vedas, the Koran, Greek and Roman mythology. To understand the deeper meanings ....below the surface of literal meaning one need perhaps to see the similarities in all of these ancient storys and start there.

  For instance I see the story of Adam&Eve and eating from the tree of knowledge and the loss of paradise for the human species as a story out man gaining consciousness and with it comes a measure of suffering inherent with the knowledge of the duality: bad and good. Pandora's box has similarities and discusses a similar topic.

  I don't take such stories as literal to do so will distort meaning and lead to all sorts of contradictions.

  http://books.google.com/books?id=g0QQtlJSyOEC&pg=PA8&lpg=PA8&dq=adam+and+eve+Jung+meaning&source=bl&ots=SLyQZ01eXR&sig=dnJplpwObA6RYvmgPK6vA1kBwHg&hl=en&sa=X&ei=DsIVT-i1L4qwiQKCwNCyDQ&ved=0CDoQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q=adam%20and%20eve%20Jung%20meaning&f=false
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  Witness My Fury

  I smell spam. Now why might that be I wonder....?
• 

  Witness My Fury

  You are seeking converts...
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  Witness My Fury

  So you admit it then?