Does anybody still believe in God and the Bible? (page 6)

cyberjesus

Thank God I dont believe in him.... and thanks to the bible i dont believe in it.

You wanna realize all the bs in the bible?..... just read the book

cofty

Yes JDW seeking to lure JWs to a slightly different flavour of delusion is wrong.

Its like a dealer hanging around outside rehab.

sabastious

There is no way that the human race just appeared and descended from two humans. Impossible. Genetics. Impossible.

A new species requires evolutionary prototypes. It's not unreasonable to think that there was a first couple. The story of how sentient humans came onto the evolutionary scene is currently still beyond any of us. We have created a method to find out exactly how and where we came from, but that method did not exist when Genesis was written. That method also requires further refinement if we are to truly explain what we are. Our ancients still wanted to find out truth just as much as us. Also, just like us, they had no memory of where they came from so they required a "fill in the blanks" method. Genesis is ancient science which relied heavily on imagry and philosophy. What do you think ancient people thought of dreams and the imagry that comes from them? Dreams are self created allegory, it's been proven. Therefore Genesis, and other ancient works, using allegory to explain our existence is imperative for fully understanding where we came from and how we saw the world back then. You, like too many people on this planet, bring out the microscope with the Bible, and other ancient works, when it's actually very inappropriate outside of measuring the difference of scientific knowledge between now and then.

Just because so many call it the proprietary word of God doesn't mean that it doesn't hold vast value because it can be proven otherwise. It also doesn't mean that it isn't from God in a different way than the people who claim it's superiority believe or even teach.

-Sab

designs

Journeyed from the JWs to Calvary Chapel, Presbyterianism, Synagogue, small Christian Fellowship then finally FREEEE!!!

cofty

It's not unreasonable to think that there was a first couple.

Yes it really is, but that's another topic.

Sulla

cofty, I admit my little hypothesis fails to explain important parts of the transition to post-JW-ism. And I'm happy to concede it may be mistaken. But let me just make a couple points.

First, there really aren't any data. I'm working from personal experience the same way you are. So I'm not insisting that I am correct about this. I was hoping it would be seen as a provocative idea instead of a bizarre one, I admit.

That said, do you know of religious people who become JWs? That is, do you know people who were regularly going to church who converted to the JWs? I suspect that the great majority of JW converts are people who are not currently going to any church at all: lapsed Catholics and Protestants, mostly. I don't think that's determinitive, but I think it is interesting.

Further, consider the JW teachings. Aren't they mostly denials of Christian doctrine? God's not who the Christians say he is, the End isn't coming like they say, the Bible isn't the sort of book they say it is, your purpose isn't what Christians think it is. Etc. & etc. I think JW-ism is closer to the negation of religion and religious sensibility -- religion is a snare and a racket, don't you know?

Second, I moved from JW-ism to atheism to Christianity. That doesn't make my experience universally valid, of course, but atheism was a far more natural home for me after the JWs. In part, this was because I still held on to lots of things within the JW approach: anything outside of the conspiracy theory is nonsense and so on.

Most of the XJW atheism that I see tends to be more of the simplistic, anti-fundamentalism atheism. Which is fine, so far as it goes, but does not seem to reflect the sort of critical thinking, process of discovery thing you went through. I hear a lot of XJW atheists mock the idea of the all-powerfu sky wizard who gives us what we want -- hell, I criticize that, too. But that's Christian baby-talk, the kind that is great for Joel Osteen or Bishop Eddie Long, but hardly a sufficient response to Augustine or Merton. It's those sort of experiences (which aren't really data in the sense we would need to really answer the question) that leads me to question your 'process of discovery, rational world view' meme.

Regards

cofty

Fair comments sulla. I take your point that some go from JW to angry atheism with worrying ease. I wonder if a person's motive for being a JW is a factor. Personally I really believed it and thought I was serving god. When I discovered the borg was a lie my reaction was to investigate how I could keep my relationship with god outside the organisation. Losing my faith in god was perhaps more difficult and painful for a while than leaving the Watchtower in the first place. I was a practical atheist for along time before I had the courage to describe myself as such.

I understand the subtlties of christian theology and apologetics so I can honestly say I know exactly what it is I am rejecting.

tornapart

Quendi, I'm much the same as you, I want to continue asking questions and discovering new things. That's what freeing your mind from WTS control does doesn't it? I no longer feel I have to believe what I'm told to believe.. it's liberating! (Even if a little daunting!)

sabastious

Yes it really is, but that's another topic.

Most anthropologists now consider Neanderthals to be fully 'human' and a subspecies of H. Sapiens[1]. If it were possible to follow back the family tree one generation at a time there would be a first generation with a patriarch and a matriarch. It's not unreasonable to work within such a theoretical framework.

-Sab

cofty

Do NOT observe the commandment of Jesus Christ, as spoken of at Matthew 28:19, 20, if you are on JW.Net.

I don't make the rules and I actually prefer that apologists are free to speak freely here. Just be ready to have to defend your woo against some rational scrutiny. Your particualr brand of woo is particularly odious. My god man you are even trying to uphold the blood ban take a look at yourself!

Does anybody still believe in God and the Bible?

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