Atheists..... throwing the baby out with the bath water ? (page 22)

ziddina

"The ones I have read have been placed in a book called the bible. ..." tec

And that's the point that Cofty, myself, and several others have tried to get through to you....

If there were no bible...

You would have no clue about these "writings of Christ"...

And going back to my much earlier points on a previous thread....

Since this bible is only around 3,500 years old... And all the information about these "writings of Christ" are ONLY in the most recent parts of that bible...

Then your "god" and your "christ" couldn't be OLDER than the earth goddesses that are AT LEAST 232,000 years old...

Which means your 'bible' god didn't exist back then, because there were NO REFERENCES TO "him" - not at 200,000 years, not at 10,000 years, and not even at 5,000 years - when humanity DID HAVE WRITING ABILITIES, by the way...

tec

I need more specifics.

Specifics about what? I'm answering your questions.

You have said much of the bible is unreliable or tainted by POV.

I have said is that anything that is in conflict with Christ is unreliable. (for whatever reason) Shadow of things to come.... vs.... truth of things as they are.

And has also been pointed out, it is many books just bound together. So where to you find the writings about christ?

I answered this.

Peace,

Tammy

ziddina

And getting back to:

"Yes, Ziddina, but in his comment he says 'folks who swallow this thing called belief without question"

So, trying a different interpretation of your comment, do you have questions about your beliefs???

Or is there ANOTHER interpretation of your comment, that you'd care to share with us?

NewChapter

Okay---but you said that anything that conflicts with christ is not reliable. You've also indicated that much written in the bible conflicts with christ. So what portions of the bible are you drawing your knowledge from? Matthew, Mark, Luke and John? All of the NT? If you are aware that something conflicts with christ, then what scriptures do you use to define him?

NC

cofty

Sorry repeating NCs question.

NewChapter

This is why I'm trying pinpoint exactly which portions Tec finds reliable. Otherwise any point I make will just lead to her saying that conflicts with christ. I kind of have to understand how she defines this christ person to discuss him, or we hit the dead end over and over.

poopsiecakes

One of the biggest problems I have with belief in a higher power is the viewing one's own accomplishments. When someone achieves something or uses their talents or makes something of themselves, they're expected to right away thank god so as to appear 'humble' when really they were the ones who made that happen but to acknowledge that and give oneself a pat on the back is considered arrogant. (somehow claiming that you're favored by god isn't arrogant however)

Flip side is the same thing, if a person has made bad, short sighted choices and found themselves in a difficult place, instead of blaming god, they should recognize their mistakes and work on fixing whatever it is in them that leads them to those bad decisions.

Either way, for good or for bad, we are responsible for our choices.

tec

If there were no bible...

If there were no bible, there would still be writings about Christ. There would still be word of mouth. There would still be God, and those with faith in Him (very very few, I agree) who might ask Him to give them His truth. Moses knew about Christ before Christ came and was written about in the bible. The Israelites knew that a Messiah was coming, before He came.

But yeah, most of us have to learn about someone before we have any idea that we might actually want to get to KNOW someone.

And going back to my much earlier points on a previous thread....

If you want to go back to your earlier points, then why don't we pick up our previous conversation on that other thread. Because we've discussed this all over there.

Peace,

Tammy

cofty

This is an evasion of the key question Tammy.

There is no word of mouth about Jesus, no other writings.

Do you accept the gospels as authoritative?

NewChapter

Poopsie, that's the question that led to elders giving me blank looks. I would say "Why is it I should be grateful when something good happens, but when it doesn't happen, or something bad happens, I shouldn't blame god? I credit (blame) him for the good things."

Or when they told me when I got sick that the fact that I had disability insurance was proof that Jehovah was taking care of me. So I said, "Yes but many of the people I work with have the same insurance, and they don't pray to Jehovah. Could it simply be that I made a good choice? If I had not made that choice, I wouldn't have the insurance, with or without Jehovah." Silence.

And mind you, I wasn't even close to 'apsotacy' at this point. just frustrated. Just frustrated that everything was falling apart, and I had to sit and listen to all these stories about how blessed everyone was for doing things jah's way. I did not begrudge them those things---not at all. But it is very difficult not to flip the reasoning around and think, 'well if they did good and were rewarded, then what am I doing wrong?"

Magic never fails.

NC

Atheists..... throwing the baby out with the bath water ?

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