Beks, come on now. We go way back, you and I. I've never said that I believe that the Muslim people I work with every day are secretly plotting to kill me or something sinister like that, nor that they 'have to pay' for the heinous acts of extreme extremists. What I do see and hear are a people very immersed in their cultural identity that is based on a religious ideal, and that this identity is in itself extremist. Reform at the outer fringes is only the beginning here and we're not even close to that, let alone reform at the everyday level. Until women really begin to think critically about their outer trappings (which are very sacred and important to them) how can they even begin to understand what true freedom of the individual means? Right now it's a lot of lip service which means basically nothing, because the next generation of Muslim woman are no closer to being really free.
Oklahoma beheading - Islam is a disease
by Simon 1524 Replies latest members adult
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sooner7nc
Very well said poopsie.
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talesin
Sorry, Bels - I felt like you 'jumped on' my quote of Poopsie's, and really, the comparison you made didn't fit. Yes, you were civil. I should have said I thought you were being 'contentious'. ;)
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Berengaria
I am sorry my dearest Poopsie, but again, this is not my experience. My husband and I have worked closely with many muslims over the years, and find none of the attitudes being attributed to them here. Women in positions of authority, no burkas or veils. I truly believe there is far more going on than we are willing to examine. Poverty for one. Imperialism for another. Iran a few years ago had an upheaval, essentially young modern people. This is what will change things. Who doesn't want a cell phone and an Ipad??
But the OP and most of the comments are saying that ALL muslims are the same, and the basis of the religion is violence. I can hardly imagine that any one of these people would say the same about christianity, and yet a cursory look at the book and the history would say it is so, even though we know that is lack of context and misunderstanding. Surely the abortion clinic killers, wife beaters, and gay killers are all extremists and do not represent the main.
It is unfortunate that these people happen to live over the oil resources that we westerners have lusted after for a hundred years. I doubt that this conflict would be on our radar if that were not so.
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sooner7nc
Christianity drags everything down around it just like Islam. They both cheapen life into some race for a ethereal prize that doesn't exist. I think Islam is just a bit worse though.
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talesin
I think your points are valid, and made me think of Iran, and its amazing culture.
I dunno ........ it's seemed that there is a line that is drawn between those I have worked with, lived beside ...... it's kinda like 'as a non worshipper', you can only be 'this close' to us. You cannot have a full friendship, nor do we marry into other faiths (I've known a couple of daughters that have had to pretty much give up their families - not qute shunned, but you know - no more family closness) ......
So, no, Beks, don't regret commenting. You make good points, as always.
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talesin
Yeah, religion sux!
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Simon
When ... Where have I said that all muslims are the same?
Please just post you own opinions and don't try to decide what mine are.
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poopsiecakes
Women in positions of authority, no burkas or veils.
So no hijab either, then? Good for them! I'm not discounting your experience out of hand - just relaying my own. Where I sit in a Canadian province full of oil (in case you've forgotten where I live ). One of the women at work who was my boss and is now a director - strong woman of power and someone I have a lot of respect for - is a woman who doesn't wear the hijab. I asked her about that and she went on to explain that her greatest sin is vanity and that she does an extra 5 prayers every night (over and above the usual amount for a Muslim) before bedtime to beg for forgiveness for the sin of not covering up. Her husband is a converted Muslim, which took a lot of convincing, and she still has a very poor relationship with her family because of it - pretty much non-existant (we bonded over this). So this powerful, strong and beautiful woman feels like a failure at her most base level every night when she prays for forgiveness because she still believes her religion is the one and true. I think that sucks. So talk all you want about the moderates - there's nobody more moderate than this woman - and it's still extreme on many levels.
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LoveUniHateExams
'not to mention that this particular religion is currently under global attack'
The poster has got this the wrong way round. It is the rest of the world which is under attack from radical Islam.