After 66 pages I would describe this thread as follows: We are very ANGRY about the IS beheadings and this has made as remember how angry we were about 9/11: (cue Ghostbusters theme) Who we gonna Blame? THE MUSLIMS (or Islam but the two are basically interchangeable). What we gonna use? Those passages in the Quran which are used by the fanatics to rationalize terrorist tactics (by applying a form of selective literalism that we rountinely criticise the WBTS for employing) and we will discount all the examples to the contrary in the Quran because we know best and we will discount all expressed Muslim opinions against violence because they have a form of theocratic warfare and so everytime they condemn violence in the name of Islam they are lying because WE KNOW that Moderate Muslims don't reject violence because WE KNOW that the only real difference between a Moderate Muslim and an Extreme Muslim is that Moderate Muslims think it but Extreme Muslims do it (the use of violence against non-believers that is).
Oklahoma beheading - Islam is a disease
by Simon 1524 Replies latest members adult
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barry
The Islamic State latest call to arms in its propaganda magazine Dabiq says it is very important that attacks take place in every country that has entered into the alliance against the Islamic State, especially the US, UK, France, Australia and Germany. 'Every Muslim should get out of his house , find a crusader and kill him. Secrecy should be followed when planning and executing any attack' says the fourth edition of the IS recruitment publication. There was a similar call three weeks ago for IS followers to attack non-Muslim Australians. Barry
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LoveUniHateExams
@Frazzled
Are there any Quranic verses that explicitly say 'pardon/forgive/show mercy to the infidel'?
Genuine question.
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barry
We do know how to interpret the Koran because if there is a contradiction in meaning of a verse the latter verses are abrogated by the former verses. This is the method of interpreting the Koran and spelled out in the Koran.
This tells us how to interpret the Koran and we know the fanatics interpret it this way but we can never know how the rest interpret the Koran because they don't all folow the nasty bits.
I do have a few friends that are Muslim but unless I engage with them I can't know how they think I'm sure they are OK. I know others that say the most dreadfull things that have shocked me to the core. I believe if a person says something we should take them at their word.
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cofty
Frazzled - Every conservative Muslim must condone ideologically motivated violence.
Until moderate muslims find courage to reject the inspiration of the quran and hadith they will rightly be codemned along with their fundy bretheren. I am not "angry' or afraid of Islam. I am convinced it is a dangerous and hateful religion.
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KateWild
I am convinced it is a dangerous and hateful religion.-Cofty
I agree to some extent. Islam is a dangerous religion and the religious leaders are oppressive to the members. Many of the members, Muslims, are trapped in this religion. but what is more troubling are groups like ISIS, each country has to do their best to irradicate extremist sects that seek to kill as their priority.
@LUHE, I think you need to read the Koran yourself, you may be surprised at what you find. I have just been reading random verses this afternoon to guage the frequency of negative scriptures. All of the scriptures I read were directed at the reader to improve as a good individual, to make changes to oneself and progress. The main theme of the Koran is improvement and peace.
Kate xx
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KateWild
@LUHE
I found a scripture talking about loving your enemies
It may be that Allah will grant love (and friendship) between you and those whom ye (now) hold as enemies . For Allah has power (over all things); And Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful. Surah 60.7
Most translations of the Koran don't use the term infidel
Kate xx
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EmptyInside
There are those that take anything to extreme. And religion is no exception. These fundamentalist want to take everyone back to 2,000 years ago.
I'll be honest. I always considered myself an open minded person,even as a Witness. I was secretly more liberal than most. But,now,I am just weary when I look at all that is happening around the world. And religion seems to be behind a lot of it. Or does religion just give them an excuse to be crazy?
I mean,do all those in Europe and the U.S. joining ISIS in the middle east, really believe in Islam? I'm worndering if it's a new fad or something. Or do they just want to go kill people?
My limited view of the Koran also talks of beheading non-believers. The Bible also speaks of loving ones enemies. But,then,also speaks of their destruction.
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LoveUniHateExams
@KateWild
Infidel/disbeliever/unbeliever/kufr - whatever.
Quran 60:7 is a 'nice' verse, and emphasises some of Allah's better qualities - being forgiving and merciful. 'Friendship' between muslims and non-muslims is also good.
Certainly, if the decent majority of muslims can reclaim the Quran, emphasise verses such as these and drown out the extremist voice then reform may happen.
TBH I don't have the inclination to study the Quran at the moment.
Surah 60:7 says 'Allah has power over all things'. This suggests to me that peoplem muslims now hold as enemies may in future become muslims and therefore friendship may result. It certainly does not explicitly say that infidels deserve forgiveness/mercy/understanding.
My question still stands, however.
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Simon
If Islam and the Quran are as benign as some claim then why is it so easy to make an extreme version of it and so easy to recruit from and radicalise 'moderate muslims'?
The explanation is that they are simply not different enough in their outlook and teachings.
This is what needs to change and until it does then 'moderate Islam' will always be a potential liability just as it is designed to be - many religious verses are battle cries designed to incite the crowd and inspire martyrdom. The Quran seems to do that more than some other books.