Oklahoma beheading - Islam is a disease

by Simon 1524 Replies latest members adult

• 

  Bungi Bill

  prologos,

  I have no quarrel with the fact that, to quote, "people with great achievements can descend into orgies of killings." Sadly, this is the story of the human race, and no people - NONE at all - are squeaky clean in this regard.

  The point I was trying to make was that it is incorrect to allege, as one poster did, that Islam has contributed nothing to humanity "in 1400 years."

  In this as in every other intance, it is always a good idea to be certain of facts before launching accusations.

  Bill.
• 

  Qcmbr

  Mikado - that document is terrible. Read it again carefully. Look for the get out clauses and the exemptions.

  Any ideology that argues for jihad, defines women as secondary in law, politics and education, that ties religious faith to political governance , that imposes penalties up to and including death for apostasy or criticism of religion and that relies upon a religious book of mystical nonsense as a moral guide is a seedbed for brutal , immoral and civilisation threatening acts.

  It is almost inevitable that Islamic thought will create acts of terrorism in the future that will dwarf anything seen so far. All the passion for inaction by significant sections of western society will sleepwalk us into a scenario where Islam will be given so much freedom it will be forced to act against us. Read that again.
• 

  prologos

  Bungi Bill, my strong interest is not history. These achievements, particularly bridging the knowledge of Antiquity over to the re-naissance, the Algebra, the Zero,

  was that mainly the hallmark of Islam or the people that embraced it?
• 

  lisaBObeesa

  It is so easy to Google it...
• 

  Qcmbr

  If Islam in and of itself was a force for human advancement then the Islamic golden age would be continuing. It is equally a mistake to attribute any qualities of scientific advancement to Christianity. Both philosophies are mythical in nature and science, knowledge and invention are generally hindered indirectly (resources are spent on religious activity) or directly (banning research, opposing anti-myth findings like evolution or killing scientists). A deity based philosophy constantly looks to a past age of magic and spends far too much time navel gazing to be more than an accidental partner to science. The monasteries of Europe were primarily concerned with worship and it was a happy coincidence that their religion used books meaning they had to have scribes meaning they ended up as centres of learning.

  Enlightened leaders (Alfred the Great for example) , political stability , writing and the three / four crop rotation system are more important for advancing knowledge than religion.

  I still stand by the statement that even with the 'Golden Age' of Islam it's contributions to world knowledge are very small compared to renaissance Europe's (in fact it's the Greek and Indian knowledge that underpinned this that was most useful.)
• 

  BucketShopBill

  The Hindus received something that would destroy their glorious age of philosophy, growth in math and early science, it was called Islam!

  You know another great Empire of knowledge and wisdom was decimated around 1200s according to Islamic and Hindu tradition, some estimate 80 Million Hindus were eradicated in the Indus River Region during India's great expansion of knowledge. You want to talk about invasions, the old traditions brag of pulverzing the Hindus into dust! Ibn Warraq's book "Why I am not a Muslim" comes to grip with a believer who can't understand why his religion allows no self-examination, no reviews of Quran textual critiscm and the fear and paranoia that someone is going to report you for not being a good Muslim. The Salmund Rushdie Affair propelled his scholarship and changed him from a believer to a atheists, he could not understand how a God or Allah was so cruel.

  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_conquests_on_the_Indian_subcontinent

  Ibn Warraq's book was a tough book for me to plough through, if you think the Bible has problems with "textual variance" Warraq make's the claim the "entire book of the Prophet" and Traditions are totally suspect and unreliable because the Rulers and Religious Leaders were fighting against each other using the Quran and Hadiths to hold their status. The turmoil and power shifts did no justice to the Prophet's Words and his original thoughts are probably long gone because of the ever changing alterations to control the masses and keep the powerful people in place. If anyone has any desire to understand Islam from the point of view of a real scholar and do not mind he is atheists, his writings are very good with intense source materials from the oldest records accessable.

  "He is the author of nine books, including Why I Am Not a Muslim (1995), The Origins of the Koran (1998), The Quest for the Historical Muhammad (2000), What the Koran Really Says: Language, Text and Commentary (2002), Defending the West: A Critique of Edward Said's Orientalism (2007), Which Koran?: Variants, Manuscripts, and the Influence of Pre-Islamic Poetry (2008), Why the West is Best: A Muslim Apostate's Defense of Liberal Democracy (2011) and Sir Walter Scott's Crusades & Other Fantasies (2013). He addressed the United Nations "Victims of Jihad" conference organized by the International Humanist and Ethical Union, alongside such speakers as Bat Ye'or, Ayaan Hirsi Ali, and Simon Deng. [15]

  Who destroyed the Hindu Culture that was thrieving?
  
  " An estimate of the number of people killed remains unknown. Based on the Muslim chronicles and demographic calculations, an estimate was done by K.S. Lal in his book Growth of Muslim Population in Medieval India, who claimed that between 1000 CE and 1500 CE, the population of Hindus decreased by 80 million. Although this estimate was disputed by Simon Digby in (School of Oriental and African Studies), Digby suggested that estimate lacks accurate data in pre-census times. In particular the records kept by al-Utbi, Mahmud al-Ghazni's secretary, in the Tarikh-i-Yamini document several episodes of bloody military campaigns. [3] Hindus who converted to Islam however were not completely immune to persecution due to the caste system among Muslims in India established by Ziauddin al-Barani in the Fatawa-i Jahandari, [4] where they were regarded as an "Ajlaf" caste and subjected to discrimination by the "Ashraf" castes. [5]"
• 

  Bungi Bill

  prologos,

  That there were rescourceful and intelligent peoples amongst those who embraced Islam is obvious from their achievements.

  What Arab civilisation (together with its Moslem religion) did while at its peak was to promote an environment in which learning was not merely just tolerated; rather, it fostered an atmosphere in which scholars of all persuasions were openly welcomed.

  Contrast that with the situation in Western Europe during those same centuries. From their achievements in more recent times, we can conclude that there were in all likelihood resourceful and intelligent people amongst its population, too. However, Western Europe was then very much under the sway of the Roman Catholic church. In those times, The Church went out of its way to suppress learning, and the "Dark Ages" are not called that for nothing!

  So, yes, learning was a hallmark of Moslem rule during the times when Arab civilisation was at its peak.

  (Just like ignorance was a hallmark of Christianity during the centuries in which Western civilisation had declined to its lowest level).

  Bill.
• 

  smiddy

  Ayaan Hirsi Ali , read her books INFIDEL My Life and The Caged Virgins . an ex Muslim woman who presents a balanced veiw of Muslim beleifs contrasting those beleifs with christian beleifs or more importantly with western culture with the culture of Arab/Islam culture .

  smiddy
• 

  LoveUniHateExams

  @lisaBObeesa

  Islamist savages seem to have an obsession with beheading. Why is this?
• 

  Bungi Bill

  For those who are inclined to view the adoption of the Arabic numerical system as being in the "Oh yeah, so what?" category, try using Roman numerals to perform the following calculation (relay IDMT operating time, as per IEC 60255, using Standard Inverse Curves):

  t = (K. ß) ÷ [(I ÷ I>)ª-1] seconds.

  Where K = 0.20, ß = 0.14, I = 12000, I> = 350 and ª = 0.02

  No matter which branch of science you are dealing with (including medicine), you will not get very far before you are having to use advanced mathematics, which is simply not possible if using Roman numbers. Their number system was a major impediment to the further advancement of Roman learning, and the adoption of the Arabic numerical system was a major breakthrough in the further development of the sciences.

  It was developments such as this, together with the preservation of the knowledge acquired by the Greeks, that helped make the Renaissance possible. (Bear in mind it was Christian fanatics who destroyed much of the contents of the great library at Alexandria. Left to the Christian religion, it is quite likely that none of the knowledge from the Greeks and others would have been preserved).

  Such realisations as this may stick in the craw of the Reverend Rednecks about the place, but for reasonable persons should not pose any great discomfort.

  Bill.