Oklahoma beheading - Islam is a disease

by Simon 1524 Replies latest members adult

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  AlphaMan

  We came here as X-JW's because we broke away from a Christian cult ideology that was against women, homosexuals, and everyone worldly that was not a part of our religion. The Governing Body Leadership was a tolalitarian extremist leadership who could not be questioned without soiritual death to those that dared questioned beliefs. The JW religion even protected filty pedophiles in the religion. Our God Jehovah was going to kill all worldly people and apostates at Armaggedon. Despite many individual JW's being very nice people, and many not really believing all the extremist JW beliefs, the Jehovah Witness religion is still a disease on humanity.

  So many similarities with Islam, except Islam has a holy Koran and ideology that promotes hate of and death to all infidel non-Muslims. The Koran even encourages and praises those Muslims who would kill infidels. Muslims attack and kill peaceful people of other religions all around the world. Many attacks and deaths have incurred against people in Western countries by Muslims in the name of Islam. Muslims attacked the U.S. on 9/11 and killed 3,000 when the WTC twin towers were brought down by suicide passenger jets. Around the world Muslims call America the Great Satan and wish death to all infidel non-Muslims. In OK, USA a 54 yo grandmother has her head completely hacked off with a knife by a Muslim. If the religion's fruit is diseased, then the religion is diseased.

  Why would somebody here defend the Muslim religion when the hate ideology is clearly stated in their Koran, and proven by Muslim words and actions? The very things the Liberals on here stand up to defend like tolerance of other's religion, equal rights for women, acceptance of homosexuals, no death penalty, and so on, are all things that the Muslim religion is completely against. There is no Allah. Mohammad was both a murderer, and a pedophile. The history of Islam is hate of others.

  Some here have used the examples of the Nazi's, and the KKK as Christian hate groups that committed atrocities, and how they hate them and rightly so. How can you hate the Nazi's and defend Islam, when Muslim history is just as violent? Muslims still want death to Israel and all Jews. How can you hate the KKK and defend Islam, when Muslims hate Western white people and all infidels? The Nazi's and KKK both started declining when people recognized the diseased ideology and stood up to them. People never stood up to sympathize for the Nazi's and KKK, because they knew some nice ones, or excused their actions because that was their religion. I still see nothing or any reason why I should like, love or not hate what the Muslim religion stands for. Why is it okay for me to hate the Jehovah Witness religion, but not the Muslim religion?

  I see no difference in the ideologies of Islam, Nazi's and the KKK. Yes, there were some nice Nazi's and KKK members, but the ideology behind all these movements is diseased and dangerous.

  Now before the bleeding heart liberals here start bashing me.....I know Muslim people. I treat them with respect, because I treat everyone with respect. I judge a person on who they are and their actions, because I don't give a shit about their religion. I got an e-mail from a young Muslim man today. I met him on the bus one day and we had a conversation about life and goals. (nothing about religion mentiond) He told me what he was studying, which happened to be a field I was a Manager in. I gave him some advice and my contact information to use whenever he was ready to start a career. He thanked me for the advice, motivation, and contact information. He interviews for my Company next week, and I hope he succeeds, not because he's Muslim, but because he seemes like a good young man.
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  Pacopoolio

  Alpha Man, let's try a very simple relationship exercise here, because you make several equivolency errors in your last post. I want to make sure you understand the relationships here before I continue any further, to make sure everyone is on the same page. Answer these please:

  1) Koran is to Islam as _____ is to Christianity?
  2) Pine is to tree as Catholicism is to _________?
  3) Jehovah's Witnesses are to Christianity as _____ (several will fit here, any will do) are to Islam?
  4) Ant is to animal as Scientology is to _________?

  Your answers to these can illuminate the logical jumps and equivolencies in your post above. Using that, I can attempt to explain what you're missing about what people in this thread that you label as "Liberals," for some reason, are actually saying.
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  barry

  I recall Cat Stevens has said in the past that Rushdie should be killed in compliance with the Islamic fatwa. He said that quite a while ago and I don't know if he still holds to that opinion .
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  Simon

  Isn't that a prime example of how things can get a little blurred between common sense and the commandments of the religion even to a 'moderate' muslim?

  And we're not talking about any trick question here or hard to figure out nuance of foreign affairs - simply "should that guy really be killed just for saying something about the religion?"

  The thinking that permeates can easily warp opinions and behaviours that should normally be pretty clear cut in terms of what is right and wrong. People can easily become swept up in what they think they are supposed to say and do, what is expected of them and not what they really deep down believe. I'm sure we've all been there as JWs (though probably never to that extent).

  I don't think Cat Stevens (Yusuf Whateverhisnameisnow) is a bad person and he says he regrets what he said ... but was he lying then or is he lying now?
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  Simon

  re: your point about individual muslims AlphaMan - it's just the same as with the JWs and WTS: we can hate the religion and the leadership and the teachings and what people believe but be perfectly polite with the nice person that knocks on our door because it is not *them* that is the problem or the cause, they are just as much a victim of that system as we were at one point (possibly more because they are still in it).

  Some people seem to have a problem trying to separate criticism of islam and muslim beliefs with how you feel about the people who claim to be muslim. I would suggest a great many of these are probably like the people in the WTS - they don't really know what they believe or are meant to think, they just turn up each week because they grew up doing it and all their family expects them to do it but they mostly doze through all the heavy stuff and don't really believe for one minute that heaven awaits them if they do the deeds described in the holy book. I don't hate them, they are just like the people sat in KHs but in a much worse situation. The WTS lamented that they couldn't kill ex-members because of the laws of the land ... islam says to hell with the law, we're above it.
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  frankiespeakin

  Well I'm thinking that of this quote:

  “In the moment when I truly understand my enemy, understand him well enough to defeat him, then in that very moment I also love him. —A.E. Wiggin”

  Blanket statements about people based on some nut jobs gone crazy with religion just don't fit. We all have our projections of which we are unconscious of about people, and I try to supress mine or withdraw them so that I can have a clearer picture.

  All religion is based on what the Deity considers to be good and bad, a killing Deity righteous warfare, who is worthy of death in the Deity's opinon, and who should be loved and how they are to br treated, what body parts need fixin and what not. I dont veiw religion as a disease but as a natural outcome from the human mind that is slowly being replaced by more scientific data about the universe and where it came from.
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  Simon

  I'm not worried by the deities that say *they* are going to return and kill non-believers.

  The deities that want their (deranged) followers to kill non believers are more scary.

  Neither deity exists but one is surely more dangerous than the other.
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  Frazzled UBM

  LUHE: "'islamic fundamentalism is a relatively recent phenomenom' - WTF?! How do you think Islam was brought to Morocco, Lebanon, Iran, the Indian sub-continent?" This is your basic problem - you don't understand that Islamic Fundamentalism is a political ideology which is separate and distinct from Islam. Yes the Islamic Caliphate used force to conquer the Middle East and North Africa but this was little different from other Imperial expansions that used religion as a rationale and rallying cry. Islamic Fundamentalism is a modern utopian ideology which believes that modern political problems would all be solved if only Muslim countries united into a single Islamic Umma with Fundamentalist Islamic leaders who imposed their version of Sharia Law. It is deeply hostile to the West because it believes the West is engaged in a conspiracy to prevent this happening. The overwhelming majority of Muslims reject this iedology.

  As for yoru comments about my views on US Foregin Policy - if you looked at them carefully I was putting them forward as one way to view cause and effect - I was not putting them forward as the complete explanation. Certainly the actions of Arab political leaders, Iranian (did you know the Iranians are not Arabs?) political leaders as well as Israeli political leaders have a huge impact. The reactive and self-defeating nature of poilitics in the region is legendary. A very good book on the CIA sponsored coup in Iran in 1953 is called "Paved With Good Intentions." I thnk this summarises US involvement in the region very well - the US blunders around thinking it is playing the honest cop but it doesn't understand the region (too often reducing issues to black and white terms withotuy thinking about the consequencxes ina balanced way), has its own baggage (in particualr being too beholden to Israel) and is too reliant on force to solve problems. The invasion of Iraq was an enormous disaster which the US had sensibly avoided in 1991 in the first Gulf War but 9/11 and too much ribbing of George W for his father not getting rid of Saddam when he had the chance, clouded judgement in 2003.

  Simon - I signed off yesterday without seeing your response. I understand what you are saying about your rationale for threatening confusedandalone and I had not seen his earlier posts so was unaware of that context. Still as the convenor of this site I think you need to be more neutral - if you are going to get involved in debates and take sides then you should be loathe to invoke your status as convenor against someone who disagrees with you even if you think they are being insulting. Arguably you should have been looking at taking action against many who posted in favour of your post for promoting religious hatred. Sugggesting that Qcmbr be poster of the month for a post supporting your views smacks of partisanship. I think Pacopoolio should be poster of the month for his contribution that didn't include any words at all. But that is my partisan view and I have no authority on this site.
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  LoveUniHateExams

  @Frazzled - yes, I know Iranians are ont Arabs. All the countries I mentioned were originally non-Arabic.

  Jihad has been occurring for the past 1,400 years. Do you accept this?

  'Islamic Fundamentalism is a political idiology separate from Islam'

  You are spectacularly wrong. Islam isn't just any old religion. Islam, a religion of harsh doctrine and even harsher punishments, is also a political and social idiology too. Every aspect of life is regulated - considered desirable, permissable or forbidden.

  Why is this particular fundamentalism called Islamic if it's separate from Islam?
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  LoveUniHateExams

  Jihad has been occurring on and off for the past 1,400 years.