@Pacopoolio
Your pictures are good to see and cheer me up somewhat. They, plus the fact that most muslims are non-violent and simply want to get on with their lives, provide a good starting place for any Islamic reformation.
Oklahoma beheading - Islam is a disease
by Simon 1524 Replies latest members adult
-
-
Frazzled UBM
LUHE - there seems to be little point in debating with you as you seem to have all the answers and are obviously a considerable Islamic scholar.
Nevertheless I will persist. Jihad means struggle and is interpreted by most Muslims as referring to the struggle to be a good Muslim. Jihad has also been used in the way that you suggest that is to justify holy wars (which happened 100s of years ago - should we draw similar conclusions about Christians based on the Crusades and other wars and practices -- like slavery -- over the years that were justified to spread the good news to ignorant savages) and is used by Islamic Fundamentalists as the rationale for using violent means to achieve their objectives.
But the majority ijtihad movement that takes an interpretive rather than literalist view of the Quran (I suppose I should not be surprised that so many on JWN are attracted to a literalist approach to the Quran and want to draw wide-ranging conclusions based on that approach) reject this interpretation of jihad and rely on passages throughout the Quran in support of this. Like the Bible, the Quran is capable of different interpretations depending on which passages you rely on how much context you take in to account. In this regard the fundamentalists use similar tactics to the WBTS.
Islamic fundamentalism (otherwise known as Radical Islamism or Revivalist Islamism) is a political movement that developed in the late 19th centruy with the founder of the Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood Sayyid Qutb. It rejected the approach to Islam of muslims generally and governments of muslim countries in particular, as a religion that only impacted the personal sphere and argued it was an all encompassing political and philosophical framework (the position you are advocating).
You and others on this thread obviously think you are justified in maintaining your bigotry towards Islam and Muslims by selectively smearing all Muslims with the crimes of a small minority and your confirmation bias is such that I see little point in continuing to debate you any further.
-
punkofnice
I generally keep out of these types of threads but my 2 penneth...or cents if you like.
My thoughts in a nutshell. Individuals are to be judged on their merits, muslim or not.
Islam in itself disgusts me on many levels.
-
Frazzled UBM
punkie - do you really know enough about Islam to be disgusted by it? Or are you in fact disgusted by the actions of some Muslims claiming to be acting on behalf of Islam - practices such as FGM (a North African practice), forced marriage (a sub-continental practice), beheading (IS) and terrorism (Al Qaeda et al.). While Islam has many of the drawbacks of organised religion - too much formalism (i.e the ritualism of the six pillars imply that as long as you do what is required you will reach paradise notwithstanding your failings as humn being) and compliance what is too often overlooked is the Humanist tradition, which involves tolerance (including towards non-believers) and charity and generally seeking to be a better person, and is similar in many respects to the Humanist tradition in Christianity. Good Muslims have a strong moral compass in the same way good Christians do.
As for this argument that moderate Muslims are responsible for the actions of Radical Muslims if they do not vocally oppose them I woldl say two things - first of all Muslim communities everywhere have been active and vocal in opposition to the extremists but have not been getting a lot of press coverage and secondly why should mainstream moderate Islam be held accountable for the actions of an extreme literalist group who they see as not representative. Should mainstream Christianity apologise for the sexual abuse perpetrated by elders of the Watchtower or be more vocal in opposing the psychologically damaging shunning practices of the organisation?
-
LoveUniHateExams
@Frazzled
Fair enough, you're entitled to your view and are free to disagree with me on a public forum such as this.
No, I don't have all the answers and neither am I an Islamic scholar. I guess were gonna have to agree to disagree.
I am willing to read around a topic and post relevent questions, however.
One point I'd like to make, if I may, is that the phrase 'good muslim' means different things to different muslims. You're correct, in that to most muslims jihad is an internal struggle, resisting temptation, thereby being faithful to Allah. To others, however, jihad means bombing a shiah mosque or beheading a yazidi civilian, thereby being faithful to Allah.
-
barry
There is a problem with Islam and I don't know if anyone has mentioned it so far. The problem being Islam is a Fascist political system as well as a religion. Christianity was born out of opression from the Roman empire but Islam was born out of military conquest by atrocities that we are seeing with the march of IS across Syria and Irak. Even most moderate Moslems believe in sharia and desire world domination by violence.
There are many decent moslems in the world but I would call them liberal in their outlook. They are decent people not because of the religion but despite the religion. Mohamad was a very bad man and his example is cited by Muslims to be the ultimate example to follow.
Ask any Muslim about these points he will tell you Islam tells me how to live, when to go to war and how to treat infidels. This is the reason Moslems don't like democracy it flys in the face of their ideal dictatorship which they want the whole world to adopt.
-
confusedandalone
Ban Lifted and/or shortened... wonderful
To address your statement:
confusedandalone: consider this a warning - I do not have infinite patience when I think people are deliberately being insulting to me or others on this site and repeatedly using false quotes and micharacterizations of what they have said as a way to do it. It will not be tollerated.
This seems very hypocritical. After all its like the instance where:
Cofty says, " I don't watch Fox
Simon says, "Me neither. It sounds like an excuse to avoid trying to address the issues raised."
Yet Simon your very first post in the thread you use the following link to establish your point. "http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/09/26/woman-beheaded-at-oklahoma-food-distribution-center-police-say/"
I insulted some folks, but those same folks insulted me and others at an alarming rate, for instance:
-----------------------------
Simon :
I don't think you really know who you are. You come across as bitter, angry and resentful and an ugly personality who seems to care nothing for others outside of your own group.
You also don't seem to be able to follow simple logical arguments or else deliberately misquote and mischaracterise what others have said in the mistaken belief it will convince the casual reader that you have a point or some sort of argument.
Islam is a disease and the people who follow it are clearly mentally unbalanced.
If you are a muslim and reading this - first of all, bravo for getting enough of an education to read in the first place
Gregor- Why isn't the treatment of women addressed by all the apologist wimps who are outraged at a video of a football player cold cocking his fiance.
It is a mono-eyebrow, goat fucker, left-hand-for-ass-wiping bunch of death cult drones. I say terminate with EXTREME prejudice.
confused and alone - you picked a very accurate avatar name. Please do not put on a suicide vest and walk into a kindergarten class. There is help available for phsycho's like you.
Confuzzledandalone is a toxic poster who is drawn to Islam for some reason. Reading his posts is a taste of the blind hate that drives some fanatics to unspeakable atrocities. His personal vitriol towards posters he doesn't even know is a sure sign of an xjw who has a lot of issues to deal with.
-
punkofnice
Fraz - punkie - do you really know enough about Islam to be disgusted by it?
Who 'really knows enough' about any subject? I studied Islam at college. Where I live I am surrounded by Muslims both good, bad and indifferent....this is the UK after all. It's a 'religion' that supposedly worships a god so is to be dismissed as delusional from the start......like all religions that I know of.
Or are you in fact disgusted by the actions of some Muslims claiming to be acting on behalf of Islam
Why would they be 'claiming' if it wasn't acceptable to many in their 'faith'? That shows a fundamental flaw in religion and god. A religious faith should surely be totally consistant across the board and a god should have given obvious instructions rather than allow idiots to make up what they want.....I know of no religion that is not inconsistant.
That these things happen is in itself proof that Islam is disgusting.
That there are those that have the idea that this is acceptable BECAUSE they are muslims revulses me.
Good Muslims have a strong moral compass in the same way good Christians do.
Good for them......................they're all still delusional though, matey peeps!
-
-
Billyblobber
That there are those that have the idea that this is acceptable BECAUSE they are muslims revulses me.
Who is saying that?
What people are saying is that the vast majority of hundreds and hundreds of millions of Muslims around the world are directly analogous to Christians and Jews in their words, actions, and beliefs. And that multiple people in this thread have issues in conflating a sect in a religion with the entirety of the religion as a whole (see conflating 'Muslims' with 'Jehovah's Witnesses'), although, mysteriously, they don't have the same problem with Christianity.