by Simon 1524 Replies latest members adult
The entire book of Revelation is all about death, suffering and destruction of all those who are not Christians.
The Pauline epistles promote staying away from anyone who is a sinner as they are deserving of death.
The Bible, as a whole promotes the God of violence and his people are taught to be just like Him.
I am currently in what is probably the highest concentration of Muslims in the country (I work in Dearborn, MI), and I see a lot of condemnation and counter-protests. The worst of anything is typically the most visible because it draws the loudest voice. You can't match media representation of terrorism with enclaves of peaceful condemnation.
The condemnation you're (Simon) using is similar to what I see on other sites about why the "black community" does not speak out against "thuggery" and other such things, and has the same flaws. 'Communities' aren't monolothic entities with the same power of voice, media broadcasts bad far louder than good, and focuses on the loudest and most controversial subjects (why, for instance, would Al Sharpton get far more coverage than 500 other, more eliquent, reasonable, black preachers) more often than not. It's almost impossible for moderates in a large, non connected group like a religion or race to override the voice of extremeist, even when they outnumber them 1/1,000,000.
@Frazzled
'islamic fundamentalism is a relatively recent phenomenom' - WTF?! How do you think Islam was brought to Morocco, Lebanon, Iran, the Indian sub-continent?
I'm not gonna lie to you, I'm struggling with your posts at the moment.
The entire book of Revelation is all about death, suffering and destruction of all those who are not Christians.
By who? Does it tell followers - YOU should go and kill them? It's not really even a subtle difference.
The Pauline epistles promote staying away from anyone who is a sinner as they are deserving of death.
Ignoring / shunning someone, while it can be 'unfair' if misused, is hardly the same as executing people.
The Bible, as a whole promotes the God of violence and his people are taught to be just like Him.
Yes, god is violent but the christian message is more about practicing peace than aggression for it's adherants.
The condemnation you're (Simon) using is similar to what I see on other sites about why the "black community" does not speak out against "thuggery" and other such things, and has the same flaws. 'Communities' aren't monolothic entities with the same power of voice, media broadcasts bad far louder than good, and focuses on the loudest and most controversial subjects (why, for instance, would Al Sharpton get far more coverage than 500 other, more eliquent, reasonable, black preachers) more often than not. It's almost impossible for moderates in a large, non connected group like a religion or race to override the voice of extremeist, even when they outnumber them 1/1,000,000.
I agree, but with the internet it's easy for anyone to have a voice and those voices could be found. None of the moderate voices ever appear to condemn the hateful teachings, just people acting on them.
Even with the media attention given to Al Sharpton there are other opinions that get heard in the black community (recently one about "talking white" for instance).
I hope I'm wrong, but there just doesn't appear to be the same range of criticism from the muslim community and when it does happen it's often to attack anyone being critical of islam.
Ive not been debating at all on this thread that all muslims are x or y or should be <deported|imprisoned|criminalised|hated> and yet this is the way this thread has been portrayed
. I honestly never realised so many people would come out in support of the Quranic teachings which is what Ive been talking about. Is it so hard to accept that some ideologies are bad (if we were discussing Nazism I hope people would see that the ideology and plan laid out in Mein Kampf made it clear what was going to happen and that German people were not being racially profiled or judged)?
Islam portrays and marginalises women and non believers in a sexist or derogatory way. This is, regardless if ideology , immoral. Can we agree? Islam mandates violent conflict as an acceptable nay desirable solution to threats going so far as to glorify and honour the martyr as a pinnacle of personal achievement, this means a radicalised individual has a violent path institutionally condoned and mapped for them. This is to be condemned , can we agree? Islam is difficult to change because criticism is punished (death if the criticism includes Mohammed and sharia law is in effect) and the very words are supposedly divine and unalterable, also no further prophets are allowed. A culture whose central legal, social and moral core is unchanging and which was written by blood thirsty warriors from a patriarchal society will increasingly find itself at odds with dynamic cultures responding to art, science, criticism and experience. Can we agree?
I state again. Islam , the ideology, is not comparible with western society, it is a seedbed and enabler of radicalisation, it is fundamentally illiberal and patriarchal, it seeks to convert the world and destroy all opposition with no restrictions on means and it is a supernatural story to be treated with disgust and disdain by those fortunate to be free from sharia law and can understand what equality and tolerance really mean.
I am sad that the criticism of a hateful ancient book is interpreted as racist|illogical|bigoted.
@Qcmbr - well put. Your post neatly summarises the issue and just about hits the nail on the head.
Qcmbr should get a "poster of the week" award for the most eloquent and reasonable explanation of a position.
Simon, you should have such a thing every week . It would be tons of fun to see who gets the award.
When I have the rating system working it should be possible.
Of course everything is always subjective - it may need controversial posts to be excluded (e.g. if something get's a lot of likes AND a lot of dislikes)
