Well, there are a lot of muslim people who are ignorant of the world outside and only know and believe what they are taught by their religious leaders. These religious leaders are the same people that whip their congregants into a frenzy of hatred towards the west to the extent that (in modern cities) it is dangerous to be a non-muslim in the streets after friday sermons. These religious leaders also operate masadras all over the place where the youth are completely immersed in the koran and indoctrinated to hate the west. because of oppression THESE people, cradle to grave, don't know anything but hate towards the west Making them easy recruits in any movement similar to what we see with ISIS.
Oklahoma beheading - Islam is a disease
by Simon 1524 Replies latest members adult
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LoveUniHateExams
Ok Frazzled one more time, bear with me on this.
Centuries ago some energetic, violent muslims spilled much blood, took women as war booty and conquered large areas of land for their faith. They did this because they believed that their holy book and prophet ordered them to.
Today some energetic, violent muslims are spilling much blood, taking women as war booty and conquering large areas of land for their faith. They are doing this because they believe that their holy book and prophet orders them to.
Are you with me so far?
Now, here's the crucial bit: what gives you, or me, or anyone else the right to label some as 'pretenders' and by implication, others as 'true muslims?'
A key difference between you and me on this issue is that I believe the words of today's extremists whereas you chose to label them 'pretenders' and disbelieve their words.
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Simon
A key difference between you and me on this issue is that I believe the words of today's extremists whereas you chose to label them 'pretenders' and disbelieve their words.
I guess the only real difference in most opinions on this topic are which group are 'true believers' following the commandments they believe are from god and which are not?
If the beliefs are diametrically opposed then they can't both be right although they can both be 'genuinely held'. But they can't both be compatible with the quran can they?
"Kill them" vs "don't kill them" seems like a major difference.
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myelaine
Frazzled...
I'm not ranting. I'm typing my opinions based on articles I've read.
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Simon
Whenever I head 'muslim brotherhood' I have images of the guys out of The Mummy.
I'm sure they are real and possibly a threat, it's hard to trust the security agencies / government when they have broken that trust in the past.
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Laika
Hi Simon, I understood your position on muslims was that everyone who claims to be a Muslim should be sentenced as a criminal, and that the 'muslims' who do not want to kill unbelievers should differentiate themselves with a new name for their religious affiliation or accept those consequences. Please correct me if I am wrong here.
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Finkelstein
I think it would fair and equally honest to say that the Quran in its written contents has the possibility to incite violence against humanity
from those who read it and the way its consumed as divinely inspired piece of literature.
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Case in point ..... the recent beheadings conducted by ISIL would have never occurred if it wasn't written directly in the Quran to do so.
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Simon
I understood your position on muslims was that everyone who claims to be a Muslim should be sentenced as a criminal, and that the 'muslims' who do not want to kill unbelievers should differentiate themselves with a new name for their religious affiliation or accept those consequences. Please correct me if I am wrong here.
It's a little different than how you put it ... it's really that I don't understand why anyone would want to identify themself as and align themselves with a religion that contains the teachings that it appears to contain if other people were following through on those teachings. I expressed it in a sensationalist way partly to spark debate and partly because I was shocked and angry at the thought of some poor family having their grandmother killed in the way she was. If there was a terrorisy wing of the WatchTower and they were killing people and those commands were in the bible I don't know if I would ever have defended the bible.
Of course there is a big difference between terrorist muslims and non-terrorist muslims in how they act and I was questioning whether that is really a difference in the teachings of the religion or whether it was that most just choose not follow those parts of it (which then raises the question of what a true muslim is).
I doubt for one second that the majority of muslims are ever going to chose a new name but that's the problem they and we face - I hate to say it's a PR issue because it goes beyond that and it sounds like it's trivialising things. I am certainly not advocating that all people claiming to be muslim be rounded up, deported or anything else.
I think to combat the bad ideas you need to show that the ideas are wrong but that doesn't seem to me to be the message that is being given out which implies some tacit agreement with the teachings.
Hope that clarifies things.
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Laika
It does, thanks for the response. I think other people read it the same way as me so I hope it helps.
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Billyblobber
I think it would fair and equally honest to say that the Quran in its written contents has the possibility to incite violence against humanity
from those who read it and the way its consumed as divinely inspired piece of literature.
.
Case in point ..... the recent beheadings conducted by ISIL would have never occurred if it wasn't written directly in the Quran to do so.
Where in the Bible does it say to hang, burn, or drown black people, suspected witches, or people who speak against the leadership?
I mean, that is entirely fair to say, as long as you acknowledge the caveats that the CORE problem is religion as a whole itself, or people, and not the Koran, as the Koran is no worse than the Talmud, which is half of the Christian Bible and the basis of the Jewish Bible.