by oneyeopen 118 Replies latest social current
I don't believe they should less rights than anyone else, I believe everyone should have rights.
You believe a gay person should be able to be denied service from a public accomodation based soley on their sexual orientation, so yes, you do.
You don't support equal rights.
A few short decades ago, churches objected to cross-cultural marriages and, especially in the states, conservatives promulgated beliefs that posited colored people as cursed by God. If proponents of those beliefs "came" back today, they would likely lament the liberalism that accords equal recognition of all ethnic groups in the eyes of God.
As far as gays rubbing society's nose in "the gay agenda", the dominant culture will often view the quest for equality of others as an affront - and whip itself into a moral panic. Junction-guy, all the arguments you trot out about gays seeking equal rights would slot nicely into the kinds of things that have been said in earlier times about the audacity of other groups jostling for equality. Women who spoke out of turn in the presence of men were accused of being uppity, coloreds as needing to show respect and other ethnicities of staying in their designated places.
Yes, it is incredibly threatening when a hitherto despised group dares assertively demand - not ask, but demand - equality. To the dominant culture that is an offensive act of defiance. Bring it on, I say. As for pastors being forced to marry gays or lesbians, rubbish. They cannot be forced to marry a couple, even a heterosexual couple - and certainly not a couple who does not belong to the pastors' religion.
I'm pretty familiar with the bible, and I don't recall any stipulations about who priests can marry, or a punishment associated with doing so.
If a pastor doesn't approve of gay marriage, why not just do a basic wedding sign up akin to a court wedding?
The law is saying "don't be a bigot" and people are replying "but we want to be bigots". Where is the angst about marrying a hetrosexual couple who have been living commonlaw? Or second marriage after a "unscriptural" divorce?
I just don't understand why churches makes exceptions for different "sins" and not others?
I just don't understand why churches make exceptions for different "sins" and not others?
This has been the lead angle in my conversations with the guys at work - all straight, a few rednecks, one severely so.
"But gay is against the bible."
I dare them to pursue that line of argument until they explain all the titty bars in town (which many of them frequent) or the 200 laws on the books that allow them to trade their wife in for a newer model without the scriptural divorce allowance for adultery. I ask them to spend just five minutes talking about how wrong these things are and how they would like to see them expunged from society and how we should legislate the citizenry into compliance with these things that are "against the bible" and then I will hear their righteousness on the gay issue without suspecting a hint of disingenuousness.
I'm likely one of the most social/cultural people on this forum, and I have yet to be approached by the gay agenda and have yet to have any gay person force anything on me. Those of you who continue to spew such nonsense are rapidly becoming the minority in the US and the entire industrialized world. One day in the future your whiney hateful voices will be nothing but annoying background noise, similar to the occasional mosquito. Until you squash the bastard.
As we have mentioned each time one of you dumbasses uses words like gay agenda and gays forcing themselves on society, we say the same things. Every social movement always has its tip of the spear activists. The suffrage movement, the labor movement, the environmental movement, the black movement, etc. Those who are out front with their agenda are the small minority, but they are needed for any movement to succeed. And every one of those movements succeeded in moving the US towards acceptance.
Why do you dumbasses continue to stupidly whine about this? Get used to gay and lesbian images. I haven't heard your whines about hetero images.
1900 "I'm sick and tired of the women's suffrage movement and their agenda being forced down my throat."
1910 "I'm sick and tired of the labor movement and their agenda being forced down my throat."
1964 "I'm sick and tired of the black movement and their agenda being forced down my throat."
1971 "I'm sick and tired of the environmental movement and their agenda being forced down my throat."
2014 "I'm sick and tired of the gay movement and their agenda being forced down my throat.
Hey dumbasses, guess what?? Those of us who care about humanity, equality and justice are sick and tired of you conservative, right wing, hysterical reactionary theists and your agenda being shoved down our throats. And when your viewpoint goes away, and it will, the planet will be a much better place.
This "Reverend" is a scam artist in addition to being a bigot. He was running a for profit business. The Washington Times is a rag with one 'agenda' (dumbasses): to stir up the undereducated religious reactionary dumbasses to movement. They succeeded. ANY decent journalistic effort would have realized that there wasn't a story here, or at least properly vetted the story.
The Hitching Post is not a church, it is a business.
The Knapps aren't pastors, they're business owners. They may be ordained, that has nothing to do with their business.
In the Texas case, the city didn't decide to just pry some information from the Pastors. It is requesting documents as part of discovery in a lawsuit filed by the people they want the documents from. If the churches don't want to produce documents required by the court, they can drop the lawsuit.
That makes more sense. My first reaction was that it seemed like an over-reach - as much as I hate religion the standard should be that it doesn't impose it's values externally onto others or discriminate against anyone but can have it's own "standards" internally and provide it's own services to the it's own members at its discretion.
If people disagree with the beliefs they should just go elsewhere (although at some point, religion shouldn't get tax breaks if they are discriminatory).
But as it's a business then no, they have no right to discriminate against people although I still think it's a waste of time and effort. If you want to eat steak then don't go to a vegetarian restaurant and complain about it.
Junction-guy, all the arguments you trot out about gays seeking equal rights would slot nicely into the kinds of things that have been said in earlier times about the audacity of other groups jostling for equality. Women who spoke out of turn in the presence of men were accused of being uppity, coloreds as needing to show respect and other ethnicities of staying in their designated places.
Given junction-guy's history he really ought to have a little more sympathy.
Hey dumbasses, guess what??
What? That people who cannot engage in a debate without calling people who hold an oppossing viewpoint names are...well you know.
piz,
I use the term dumbasses in the most loving manner possible. I have tried to avoid its use, but the dumbasses amongst us keep showing their dumbassedness to such a degree that I can't. I will keep trying.
Thanks for your input. But hate speech is hate speech. Religious people can frame it in old texts and books all they wish, but it is stiil hate. It serves no purpose other than to judge others and incite hatred towards them. Gays and lesbians, like it or not, have the legal right to marry in 32 states in the US and in many other countries. As they should. They are hurting no one. And what consenting adults do in private should be of no concern to anyone, and why anyone would give it any thought or energy is beyond rational thought.
The West and industrial nations are rapidly moving away from judging these things. Some theists are so tied up with old texts and books and what they think fairy tale gods believe that they can't think rationally about the topic. If my strong, direct language is offensive, so be it. But my language isn't one millionth as offensive as the hatred - and the damage it has caused - towards gays and lesbians created by old scrolls and belief in make believe fairy tale gods. Gays and lesbians have been discriminated against, many have committed suicide, gone into depression, etc. because of such hate. Some have been murdered, raped and otherwise assaulted simply because of their sexual persuasion and nothing more.
If speaking out in the strongest terms possible in order to mitigate that makes me, in your eyes, a dumbass, then I wear the title proudly. A dumbass I may be in your eyes, but there isn't one thing, not one, that i have stated about this topic that isn't 100 percent accurate.
I will continue to use strong direct language because the time for dumbasses to have opened their eyes, hearts and minds to acceptance is overdue. If they wish to continue hating, fine. But KEEP IT TO THEMSELVES. Bringing it out in the open will lead to the strongest condemnation and ridicule. Deservedly so.
I will stop using the term dumbass when the feeler/perceiver/believers amongst us remain silent or change their hearts.
Hey dumbasses, guess what?? Those of us who care about humanity, equality and justice are sick and tired of you conservative, right wing, hysterical reactionary theists and your agenda being shoved down our throats.
But hate speech is hate speech.
.
Sounds like you have alot of hate also. Yesterday, I tried supporting both the gay rights, and not forcing Christian Pastors to marry same sex couples if their conscience was against it, and immediately had to put up with insults and name calling from some dumbass named MASH.
