by JanH 95 Replies latest jw friends
Heathen,
: I disagree with the term brainwash myself
Would you settle for "mental manipulation?" If so, and especially since we are considering a religion that claims to speak for God Himself, what is the freaking difference?
Evil is evil, and splitting hairs over definitions doesn't change the fact that evil is still evil.
Farkel
Farkel:
Evil is evil, and splitting hairs over definitions doesnt change the fact that evil is still evil.
AMEN. Preach on Brother Farkel.
Edited by - Reborn2002 on 27 June 2002 1:51:17
I just looked up the websters definition of brainwash -to effect a radical change in beliefs by intensive indoctrination. I suppose I would have to go with that definition rather than make up my own .For some reason I always considered brainwahing to include physical and psychological torture .So I would have to change my opinion. According to websters the jw can be accused of brainwashing without any further arguement . THanks for making me look it up and get the facts
<Stupid critisism no1: Pedophiles are protected. >
Dungbeetle's criticism NO 1: You are a moron. To quote Silentlambs: "If I was a pedophile, I would become a Jehovah's Witness just as fast as I can."
<Yep, "followers of followers" aptly describes them. As Ray Franz so nicely put it, they're all "victims of victims".>
Dungbeetle's criticism NO 2: I can't judge as to Ray Franz's correctness of this perception of his THEN, twenty years ago, but this is not true now. There are no longer "followers of followers" since all the thinking ones have left and all the fragile ones are df'd or dead or worse;
Pretty much what is left are the YoYomommas and the NYtelecoms and those who are being held ,against their will ,by bullying, threats, and family ties.
You see, the mistake that ex-jw's, the communities and the governments have made has been to expend all of their meager resources on fighting the disease in sick people. A better solution is to use those same resources to vaccinate the millions of potential converts, so they don't become Watchtower victims in the first place.
Eventually, with enough vaccination and follow-up 'care' this disease can be eradicated.
And JanH and Simon and HS and all the rest of you (except KS) are right: The facts are on our side, what more do we need.
We have the vaccine; we need to attend to the method of delivery.
Good thread.
My dictionary goes on to say in definition 2 and 3:
any method of controlled systematic indoctination. an instance of treatment by such a method.
I think it is very obvious that the words 'cult' 'sect' and 'brainwashing' definitely apply to jehovah's Witnesses.
But I also have found, in my personal experience, that to use these terms in speaking to the public or Jehovahs' Witnesses is probably counterproductive and although JanH didn't say so, I assume that is a concern of his..? No doubt the avoidance of these particlar terms under most circumstances will get better results in the long run for whatever we are trying to do.
I think 'cult' 'brainwashing' and 'sect' are best used when ex-jw is talking with ex-jw, or perhaps when mental health professionals are talking with each other. I really wouldn't use the terms even in a public speaking engagement, there just are better words for better results I think.
Keiser Stuhl:
Stupid critisism no1: Pedophiles are protected. (not like Jan who molests young girls openly)
It has been proved in court that the WTS protects pedophiles.
Making silly accusations like yours however is almost certainly libelous and I would suggest that you refrain from such idiotic remarks. Also, please read my thread about duplicate accounts.
No doubt the avoidance of these particlar terms under most circumstances will get better results in the long run for whatever we are trying to do
Bravo! Bravo! Bravo!
This is sooo very true. By shouting out expressions such as these (if you chose to do so) is litterally putting yourself in a position to be mocked rather then listened to. Not only in the eyes of at least 98% of all JW's but, as someone around here says, dollars to doughnuts 60 or 70% of the general public.Even most folks in the general public who hate running into JW's would view one who uses these terms as being ratical and blow them off.
plum
julien:
I accept that the GB could be classed as a 'thing' for worship and I understand your point of view. As many folk here are from the U.S.A. I thought they might be interested, for the reason of comparison, to see what a well-known British dictionary gave as a definition. Unfortunately, people don't necessarily understand a word to have the 'official' definition. Language in everyday use of course is ever-changing, and even from county to county (state to state) words can have a different shade of meaning. So I think it is good to be aware that words can mean different things to different people, so there will be disagreements on the 'correct' definition.
Stupid Criticism #57 - The WT and GB are evil!
To Farkel -
It is very important how people are criticized and what words are used. For instance, if someone was involved in a hit and run accident that involved injury to the victim, it would be erroneous to label the perpetrator as an evil person that drives around trying to hit and injure people when in actuality it may have been a little, old lady who was scared and made a very bad decision. Similarly, to label the WT and GB as an evil, brainwashing cult can be misleading to people due to the functional definition and use of these words (not the dictionary's definition.) That is my opinion, at least, but what do I know?
amac,
Similarly, to label the WT and GB as an evil, brainwashing cult can be misleading to people due to the functional definition and use of these words (not the dictionary's definition.)
Somehow I get the impression you have no idea what a "functional definition" is. Am I right?
- Jan
