Jeffro you know perfectly well what I mean . All this " discussion " makes no difference at all to the fact that the Witnesses are a cult and Jesus died for our sins .
Jan from Tam
Insight Book LIES - then tells the TRUTH!
by BoogerMan 147 Replies latest watchtower bible
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Jeffro
K, bye. Glad you could drop by.
Also, there’s no reasonable basis for the belief that Jesus ‘died for our sins’.
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Duran
LOL! Scholar in line with what Vidqun posted...
[28 These are the people whom Neb·u·chad·rezʹzar took into exile: in the seventh year, three thousand and twenty-three Jews.
29 In the eighteenth year of Neb·u·chad·rezʹzar, from Jerusalem there were eight hundred and thirty-two souls.
30 In the twenty-third year of Neb·u·chad·rezʹzar, Neb·uʹzar·adʹan the chief of the bodyguard took Jews into exile, seven hundred and forty-five souls. All the souls were four thousand and six hundred.]Above it shows 3 exiles that took place in Neb's 7, 18 and 23 year.
According to WTS Neb ruled as king for 43 years.
They say 607 was Neb's 18th year.
607+18=625-43=582
625-582 Neb's years as king (According to WTS)
His 7th year would be 618.
18th year world be 607.
23rd year would be 602.
This shows captivity for:
81 years 618-537
70 years 607-537
65 years 602-537
Was Babylon a world power for 88 years? (625-537)
Were they a world power for 81 years? (618-537)
Were they a world power 86 years? (625-539)
Were they a world power 79 years? (618-539)
Were they a world power 70 years? (607-537)
Were they a world power 68 years? (607-539)
Do you think that Babylon was being served during 625-618 period?
How about during 618-607?
Were the ones taken captive in 602 (after 607) serving Babylon during that 5-year 607-602 period?
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scholar
Duran
Above it shows 3 exiles that took place in Neb's 7, 18 and 23 year.
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False. Jer. 52: 28-30 lists only three deportations into exile or one common exile.
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According to WTS Neb ruled as king for 43 years
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Correct. This is based on secular chronology by means of Ptolemy's Canon, but the Bible does not provide any information on this. Thus, based on sound biblical scholarship, we can determine that Neb's reign was 624 -581 BCE.
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Were they a world power 68 years? (607-539)
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The said scholar likes this one!!!!
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You ask a lot of questions so here are two from the said scholar:
1. Was Jerusalem destroyed in 586 or 587 BCE?
2. Why have you and Ptolemy omitted any reference to the missing 7 years of Neb's regnal vacancy?
scholar JW
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scholar
Vidqun
Scholar, no matter how you shake or shout, 607 BCE for the destruction of Jerusalem is an impossibility, a Watchtower 'pie in the sky.' Only Daniel (and Josephus) would confirm such a period, which turns out to be a scribal error. The following is how history would unfold during said period, i.e., according to the Scriptures:
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Nope. The date 607 BCE is the only possibility- a historical, . theological and chronological fact. Such a date is confirmed by both Daniel the prophet, Ezra the Jewish scribe and Josephus the Jewish historian.
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Seventy years of servitude which includes five deportations:
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There was only one Exile proper which ran from Neb's 18th year- 607 BCE until Cyrus 1st year'-537 BCE which included only three deportations according to Jeremiah.
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scholar JW
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scholar
Jeffro
In the poor addled mind of 'scholar' (and other JW cronies), the Jews arrived in Judea, marking the end of 70 years. But the problem (actually one of a great number of problems), is that directly contradicts Jeremiah 29:10. They make a big deal about their faulty translation saying "at Babylon" in the first half of the verse, but quietly ignore the second part of the same verse. In the JW interpretation, the Jews arrive in Judea, and then attention is given to their return. Once they're already there. It's as dumb as it sounds.
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You are the dumb one. The latter part of the verse clearly indicates that at their return home, Jehovah would indeed give attention to them as well described in the next verse 11. where he promised to give His people hope and a future and the events post 537 BCE are well described in the remaining books of the OT .
Nice try but please read the text more carefully and do not get sidetracked by pretty coloured charts.
scholar JW
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scholar
Jeffro
Are you stupid or simply choose to be ignorant?
But in the second article in the series, they admit that modern historians instead actually rely on contemporary business records that establish the Neo-Babylonian chronology.
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Any careful reader will notice that there is no contradiction for your false claim. The insertion of the above word 'instead' is false and misleading. The second article has as its purpose which is different to the first article in that the second article is subtitled 'Part Two: What The Clay Documents Really Show'. Thus, this second article focuses on additional evidence for the claims made by scholars namely evidence from the cuneiform documents.
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Worst of all, the November article scored an own-goal by requiring that the solstice of 588 BCE occurred on a date that is physically impossible. 🤦♂️ Luckily for the Watch Tower Society, most JWs lack the critical skills required to identify the problem
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Says who? You are no expert or authority on ancient Babylonian astronomy.
scholar JW
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Vidqun
Scholar, Pharoah Necho’s campaign in northern Syria coincides with the brief reign of Jehoahaz, who was deposed on Necho’s return shortly after 1 Tishri (late Sept) 609, at which time Jehoiakim’s accession begins. First year of Jehoiakim, Tishri 608 (Sept–Oct) to Elul 607 (Aug–Sept). Third year of Jehoiakim, Tishri 606 (Sept–Oct) to last of Elul, 605 (Oct 6). This is the twenty-first year of Nabopolasar and the accession year of Nebuchadrezzar. The latter agrees with Ptolemy’s Canon, Nabonidus Harran Stele (NABON H 1, B), VAT 4956 and many Business tablets. As you will notice, the destruction of Jerusalem is still a long way off, so 607 is not on the menu.
Battle of Carchemish, late May to early June 605; Nabopolasar’s death Aug 15/16, 605. Nebuchadrezzar’s coronation Sept 7, 605. The accession year of Nebuchadrezzar = the third year of Jehoiakim. First (regnal) year of Nebuchadrezzar = the fourth year of Jehoiakim. See A. R. Green (1982). “The Chronology of the Last Days of Judah: Two Apparent Discrepancies.” Journal of Biblical Literature, 101, pp. 57–73.
Jehoiakim reigned 11 years in Jerusalem (2 Kings 23:36). Dan. 1:1, 2 encompasses a period of 8 years. At the beginning of the eight years, in 605 BCE, Daniel and his companions would be deported (Dan. 1:1, 3). At the end of the eight years, in 597, Jehoiakim would be deposed, and some of the temple utensils taken (2 Chron. 36:5-7; Jer. 52:28; Dan. 1:2). Next followed Jehoiachin’s appointment, lasting only three months. Nebuchadrezzar, in his 8th year, would take 8000 into exile, including Jehoiachin. All remaining temple utensils would be taken (2 Kings 24:10-16; 2 Chron. 36:9, 10). This proves that the deportations do not have to be associated with the siege and capture of Jerusalem. Even after the fall of Jerusalem, during Nebuchadrezzar’s 18th year, the land was not left completely desolate. Jeremiah reports a final deportation in Nebuchadrezzar’s 23rd year.
Josephus would follow Daniel:
"Josephus elsewhere describes the destruction of Jerusalem by the Babylonians and then says that “all Judea and Jerusalem, and the temple, continued to be a desert for seventy years” (Josephus, Antiquities of the Jews X, ix, 7 [10.184]). He pointedly states that “our city was desolate during the interval of seventy years, until the days of Cyrus” (Josephus, Against Apion I, 19 [1.132]). Here he shares the misconception of a later editor and/or redactor of the book of Daniel, “fulfilling the devastations of Jerusalem, [namely,] seventy years” (cf. Dan. 9:2)."
Jerusalem was not left desolate for seventy years. Here's that scribal error I was referring to:
Devastations vs. reproach. In the OG we have ὀνειδισμός, meaning “reproach” (singular). See NETS. This is viewed as an error in transmission: Jer. 25:9 καὶ εἰς ὀνειδισμόν and (I turn them) into a disgrace ולחרפות is read for MT ולחרבת and (I will turn them) into desolations. However, as seen, Dan. 9:2 is not drawn from Jer. 29:10, but Jer. 25:9-12. Here it could mean “reproach, disgrace, insult” (cf. Jer. 18:16; 19:8; Ezek. 5:13, 14). Specifically Jer. 25:9 וְלִשְׁרֵקָ֔ה וּלְחָרְב֖וֹת עוֹלָֽם , “and something to whistle at and places devastated to time indefinite.” LXX καὶ εἰς ὀνειδισμόν, ולחֶרְפַּת. See BHS footnote. KBLex, in accordance with the textcritical note suggests an emendation to לְחֶרְפַּת (“as a disgrace”). See J. Lust, E. Eynikel & K. Hauspie (2003). A Greek-English Lexicon of the Septuagint: Revised Edition. Deutsche Bibelgesellschaft: Stuttgart. According to secular chronology, Jerusalem did not lie desolate for seventy years, but her reproach and humiliation could have started with Jehoiakim’s three year servitude, completing Jeremiah’s seventy year cycle (2 Kings 24:1, 2; cf. Is. 25:9, 11).
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scholar
Duran
Like you have for years on here, your reasoning is moronic, you love to parrot the WTS false teachings, and you ignore Scriptures like Jeremiah 27:6-11.
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If it is truly moronic it has certainly provided entertainment for the fools. The said scholar loves Jer. 27:6-11.for it foretells the consequences for the Jewish nation if they forsook Jehovah with a foretold punishment by means of Neb king of Babylon.
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Even if you want to claim that destruction came on Jerusalem in 607 (even thou it happened in 587), the serving of Babylon for the nations started before any such destruction came upon Jerusalem. And even if you want to claim the Jews came back in 537, there is no reason to conclude that the 70 years for the rest of the nations ended in 607
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No. Jeremiah describe in quite specific terms the beginning of the 70 years and its ending as confirmed by Ezra the historian. The 70 years as a definite historic period of Exile began with the destruction of Jerusalem and its Temple with the deportation of all the people leaving the land empty in 607 BCE and the period ended with the Return of the Jews in the first year of Cyrus in 537 BCE.
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The fact is that no nations including the Jews did not serve Babylon after 539 being that it came to its end at that time.
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No comment can be made about the servitude of other nations at or after the fall of Babylon in 539 BCE with the exception of the Jews who remained in servitude to a new king of Babylon- Cyrus who ended the Jewish servitude by means of the Return in fulfillment of the 70 years.
scholar JW
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scholar
Vidqun
Scholar, Pharoah Necho’s campaign in northern Syria coincides with the brief reign of Jehoahaz, who was deposed on Necho’s return shortly after 1 Tishri (late Sept) 609, at which time Jehoiakim’s accession begins. First year of Jehoiakim, Tishri 608 (Sept–Oct) to Elul 607 (Aug–Sept). Third year of Jehoiakim, Tishri 606 (Sept–Oct) to last of Elul, 605 (Oct 6). This is the twenty-first year of Nabopolasar and the accession year of Nebuchadrezzar. The latter agrees with Ptolemy’s Canon, Nabonidus Harran Stele (NABON H 1, B), VAT 4956 and many Business tablets. As you will notice, the destruction of Jerusalem is still a long way off, so 607 is not on the menu.
Battle of Carchemish, late May to early June 605; Nabopolasar’s death Aug 15/16, 605. Nebuchadrezzar’s coronation Sept 7, 605. The accession year of Nebuchadrezzar = the third year of Jehoiakim. First (regnal) year of Nebuchadrezzar = the fourth year of Jehoiakim. See A. R. Green (1982). “The Chronology of the Last Days of Judah: Two Apparent Discrepancies.” Journal of Biblical Literature, 101, pp. 57–73.
Jehoiakim reigned 11 years in Jerusalem (2 Kings 23:36). Dan. 1:1, 2 encompasses a period of 8 years. At the beginning of the eight years, in 605 BCE, Daniel and his companions would be deported (Dan. 1:1, 3). At the end of the eight years, in 597, Jehoiakim would be deposed, and some of the temple utensils taken (2 Chron. 36:5-7; Jer. 52:28; Dan. 1:2). Next followed Jehoiachin’s appointment, lasting only three months. Nebuchadrezzar, in his 8th year, would take 8000 into exile, including Jehoiachin. All remaining temple utensils would be taken (2 Kings 24:10-16; 2 Chron. 36:9, 10). This proves that the deportations do not have to be associated with the siege and capture of Jerusalem. Even after the fall of Jerusalem, during Nebuchadrezzar’s 18th year, the land was not left completely desolate. Jeremiah reports a final deportation in Nebuchadrezzar’s 23rd yea
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All that you are doing is rehashing traditional chronology and the said scholar is familiar with such reasoning.but its error lies in the omission of the biblical 70 years which falsifies such secular chronology.
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Jerusalem was not left desolate for seventy years. Here's that scribal error I was referring
-- The simple fact is that Judah was desolate for 70 years as attested by Ezra, Daniel, Jeremiah and Josephus.
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Devastations vs. reproach. In the OG we have ὀνειδισμός, meaning “reproach” (singular). See NETS. This is viewed as an error in transmission: Jer. 25:9 καὶ εἰς ὀνειδισμόν and (I turn them) into a disgrace ולחרפות is read for MT ולחרבת and (I will turn them) into desolations. However, as seen, Dan. 9:2 is not drawn from Jer. 29:10, but Jer. 25:9-12. Here it could mean “reproach, disgrace, insult” (cf. Jer. 18:16; 19:8; Ezek. 5:13, 14). Specifically Jer. 25:9 וְלִשְׁרֵקָ֔ה וּלְחָרְב֖וֹת עוֹלָֽם , “and something to whistle at and places devastated to time indefinite.” LXX καὶ εἰς ὀνειδισμόν, ולחֶרְפַּת. See BHS footnote. KBLex, in accordance with the textcritical note suggests an emendation to לְחֶרְפַּת (“as a disgrace”). See J. Lust, E. Eynikel & K. Hauspie (2003). A Greek-English Lexicon of the Septuagint: Revised Edition. Deutsche Bibelgesellschaft: Stuttgart. According to secular chronology, Jerusalem did not lie desolate for seventy years, but her reproach and humiliation could have started with Jehoiakim’s three year servitude, completing Jeremiah’s seventy year cycle (2 Kings 24:1, 2; cf. Is. 25:9, 11).
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This is simply an interpretation. Secular chronology has no room for the 70 years nor does it allow for the land to have been desolate for 70 years however Bible chronology says differently and so do JW's.
scholar JW