by liam 129 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
The earth was not designed for life ,there have been 5 mass extinctions events in the history of the earth, last one some 65 million years ago, life is very lucky to be here and we should be thankful that we get to grow old because many do not.
Its the circle of life ,the earth and the sun will eventually grow old a die .we can't change that fact .
Why allow the just to suffer at all?
It's a good question that many good books have been written about. But, one thing is for sure; It's not like God is asking us to do something he wasn't willing to do.
But we all recognize that argument as absurd. Suffering is suffering, whether it is temporary or not.
So my question remains: Why allow the just to suffer at all?
Suffering for any period of time on account of someone else's fault is very absurd indeed. But it's the rules. Neither you nor I can change them.
Trying to is like the child that argues with the parent when the answer is 'no means no'.
So again, the issue is will we accept the rules, or not.
But, one thing is for sure; It's not like God is asking us to do something he wasn't willing to do.
I suppose you saying God was willing to suffer is because your God is Jesus. So that said, when did Jesus (your God) suffer? Was it on the cross for 3 hours, from 12:00pm to 3:00pm? Was it from the time he was arrested around 6:00am until 3:00pm..so 9 hours?
How does that compare with what us humans go through day after day, week after week, month after month, year after year?
when did Jesus (your God) suffer?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tqzlmU6kWGI&ab_channel=OutFocussed
“But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.”
Yeah, so according to you it started with his arrest. I gave you that, but what you fail to answer is how does that compare with us humans?
[ 17 Bearing the torture stake for himself, he went out to the so-called Skull Place, which is called Golʹgo·tha in Hebrew. 18 There they nailed him to the stake alongside two other men, one on each side, with Jesus in the middle.... 30 When he had received the sour wine, Jesus said: “It has been accomplished!” and bowing his head, he gave up his spirit.31 Since it was the day of Preparation, so that the bodies would not remain on the torture stakes on the Sabbath, the Jews asked Pilate to have the legs broken and the bodies taken away. 32 So the soldiers came and broke the legs of the first man and those of the other man who was on a stake alongside him. 33 But on coming to Jesus, they saw that he was already dead, so they did not break his legs.]
He subjected himself to an experience that he was free to escape at any moment, and which he knew he would transcend afterwards, returning to his position as the most powerful being in all of existence. Having somehow understood the human condition... he arranged for many of his 'children' to suffer eternally, with no possible way to end the torment. An outcome that is so common that he, himself, admitted that few would manage to avoid it.
It's almost as if he enjoys knowing that there are sentient beings out there who will spend eternity in the deepest depths of utter misery. And that he enjoys it so much that he made sure that a lot of them would end up this way.
TonusOH,
Freedom has always been available to everyone, through faith. The real underlying problem isn't that we don't believe God. The problem is that we can't believe God.
Romans 11:32 - For God has consigned all to disobedience, that he may have mercy on all. (c.f. Galatians 3:22)
Romans 3:9-12 - What then? Are we Jews any better off? No, not at all. For we have already charged that all, both Jews and Greeks, are under sin, as it is written: “None is righteous, no, not one; no one understands; no one seeks for God. All have turned aside; together they have become worthless; no one does good, not even one.”
Mark 7:21-23 - “For from within, out of the heart of man, come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, coveting, wickedness, deceit, sensuality, envy, slander, pride, foolishness. All these evil things come from within, and they defile a person.” (c.f. Matthew 15:19)
Psalm 5:9 - For there is no truth in their mouth; their inmost self is destruction; their throat is an open grave; they flatter with their tongue.
People get comfortable in their prison cell. They decorate it, hang a few pictures on the wall, keep the toilet clean and convince themselves that they have a better life than other prisoners who are not as diligent and creative as they are. Their comfortable myoptic life prevents them from asking for the gift of faith - Faith in a man who demonstrated his total power over all things by resurrecting himself from the dead.
Jesus came to save us from ourselves, because he loves us.
"You say, ‘I am rich. I have everything I want. I don’t need a thing!’ And you don’t realize that you are wretched and miserable and poor and blind and naked. So I advise you to buy gold from me—gold that has been purified by fire.
Then you will be rich. Also buy white garments from me so you will not be shamed by your nakedness, and ointment for your eyes so you will be able to see. I correct and discipline everyone I love. So be diligent and turn from your indifference". - Jesus
I think the problem is that god is revealed by his words and actions. If we assume that these descriptions of him are true, we are still left with a universe where more people will suffer eternally than will enjoy heaven, even though this god expressed his desire for all to be saved.
He stated he wanted only good outcomes, but a very large number of people will suffer endlessly. What does this tell us about him? Even if we accept every premise you propose, we are left with a universe where suffering is far more common than happiness. What does this tell us about the being who created the universe and everything in it?
He stated he wanted only good outcomes, but a very large number of people will suffer endlessly. What does this tell us about him?
