The Holy Spirit... and DOES God Speak to Us?

by AGuest 128 Replies latest watchtower bible

plmkrzy

Actually, I wasn't trying to say that a husband and wife become "one being", I was only comparing the unity and oneness of the husband and wife with the unity and oneness of The Father and The Son.

Yes I realize that, thats why I said what I said. Some things are only obvious. Or should be anyway.
I can agree with a large percentage of what you have said about your belief. We just come to different conclusions when we add things up. Just answer this for me and I'll drop out of this subject.
Whom do you believe resurrected Jesus?
And, how do you address the father?
Ok thats 2 things
UnDisfellowshipped

Plum,
You said:
Whom do you believe resurrected Jesus?
Good question.
I believe that The Father, and The Son, and The Holy Spirit resurrected the Human Body and Soul of Jesus Christ:
The Bible says that The Father resurrected the Human Body and Soul of Jesus Christ:
Acts 4:10: let it be known to you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the Name of Jesus Christ the Nazarene, whom you crucified, whom God raised from the dead, by this Name this man stands here before you whole.
The Bible says that The Son (as God) resurrected His own Human Body and Soul:
John 2:18-22: Therefore the Jews answered and said to Him, "What sign do You show to us, since You do these things?" Jesus answered and said to them, "Destroy this Temple, and in three days I will raise it up." Then the Jews said, "It has taken forty-six years to build this Temple, and will You raise it up in three days?" But He was speaking about the Temple of His Body. Therefore, when He was raised up from among the dead, His disciples remembered that He spoke this thing, and they believed the Scripture and the Word which Jesus had spoken.
John 10:17-18: Therefore My Father loves Me, because I lay down My Life that I may take it up again. No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down of Myself. I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to take it up again. This command I have received from My Father."
The Bible says that The Holy Spirit resurrected the Human Body and Soul of Jesus Christ:
1 Peter 3:18: For Christ also suffered once to atone for sins, the Just for the unjust, that He might bring you to God, being put to death in the flesh, but made alive by the Spirit,
Plum said:
And, how do you address the father?
Most of the time, I address The Father as "Holy Heavenly Father", and also as Almighty God, and sometimes as Yahweh and Lord.
I don't address Him as "Jehovah" much at all anymore, for various reasons (mainly because I believe "Yahweh" is more accurate, and "Jehovah" brings back bad memories).
noko

Hi UDF
John 2:18-22, now did Jesus raised himself up from the grave if he was dead? Yahweh was present in the temple of Jesus, which Jesus clarified in this passage. So when Jesus said "Destroy this Temple, and in three days I will raise it up." was it not Yahweh who Jesus fully represented and in his temple that spoke? Yes, Yahweh was present and Yahweh gave the answer through Jesus.
If Jesus did not die then there was no sacrafice UDF. No hope either for us. UDF do not rely on your own understandings, go to Jesus. . .
UnDisfellowshipped

Noko said:
John 2:18-22, now did Jesus raised himself up from the grave if he was dead?
You and I have two different beliefs about the condition of the dead. You believe (along with the JW's) that when people die, they go out of existence and are unconscious until they are resurrected, correct? More than likely, you use the following Verses as the basis for that belief: Ecclesiastes 9:5-11: For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion forever in any thing that is done under the sun. Go your way, eat your bread with joy, and drink your wine with a merry heart; for God now accepts your works. Let your garments be always white; and let your head lack no ointment. Live joyfully with the wife whom you love all the days of the life of your vanity, which He has given you under the sun, all the days of your vanity: for that is your portion in this life, and in your labor which you take under the sun. Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with your might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, where you go. I returned, and saw under the sun, that the race is not to the swift, nor the battle to the strong, neither yet bread to the wise, nor yet riches to men of understanding, nor yet favor to men of skill; but time and chance happens to them all. There is an important thing to consider with those Verses in Ecclesiastes Chapter 9: Notice those statements that I put in Bold? The context shows that Solomon was talking about the dead not having knowledge or wisdom about what is happening "under the sun" (on Earth, among the living). The Bible, in other places, teaches that when one of God's people died before Jesus Christ's resurrection, their souls lived on and went to "Abraham's Bosom" -- the Paradise section of Hades, and they were taken to Heaven when Jesus ascended into Heaven. Now whenever a Born-Again Christian dies, his soul goes directly to Heaven to be with Christ, and to await the resurrection of his body at the Rapture. Solomon said that the souls in Hades did not have knowledge of what was happening "under the sun". However, now that the souls are in Heaven, they do have some knowledge of what is happening on Earth, because of the following Verses: Revelation 6:9-11: And when He opened the fifth seal, I saw underneath the altar the souls of them that were slain for the Word of God, and for the testimony which they held. And they cried with a loud voice, saying, "How long, O Lord, Holy and True, do You not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?" Then a long white robe was given to them, and it was said to them that they should rest yet a while, until also their fellow servants and their brothers, who were about to be killed as also they were, should complete their course. The Bible also teaches that when people who did not believe in God died, their souls went to the Place of Torment in Hades, and will eventually be cast into the "Lake of Fire". Noko said:
Yahweh was present in the temple of Jesus, which Jesus clarified in this passage. So when Jesus said "Destroy this Temple, and in three days I will raise it up." was it not Yahweh who Jesus fully represented and in his temple that spoke? Yes, Yahweh was present and Yahweh gave the answer through Jesus.
No, I do not believe that claim. I do believe that The Father was in Jesus. But, according to you, does that mean The Father is the One who DIED? If it is The Father that did everything in Jesus, then that means The Father died, which is definitely NOT a Bible teaching. Or, do you just "pick-and-choose" which things The Father did in Jesus, or said through Jesus, and which things Jesus Himself did and said? Were the following statements made by The Father through Jesus, or BY Jesus Himself? John 6:40: And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day." John 6:44: No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me should draw him; and I will raise him up at the last day. John 10:17-18: Therefore My Father loves Me, because I lay down My Life that I may take it up again. No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down of Myself. I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to take it up again. This command I have received from My Father."
Noko said:
If Jesus did not die then there was no sacrafice UDF. No hope either for us. UDF do not rely on your own understandings, go to Jesus. . .
I do go to Jesus. But I am extremely careful to make sure I go to the Jesus that died for me -- the Jesus of the Holy Scriptures. You misunderstand what I am saying. Jesus Christ absolutely DID DIE -- He died a horrible, painful, torturous death on the Cross. Not only that, He bore ALL of OUR sins inside of His Body on the Cross, and He received the punishment from The Father for OUR SINS. You're right, if Jesus did not die, then there is no hope for anyone. We would still die in our sins and go to Hell. I believe what Jesus Christ said, and He said that He was going to "Paradise" the very day He died: Luke 23:42-43: Then he said to Jesus, "Lord, remember me when You come in Your Kingdom." And Jesus said to him, "Assuredly I say to you, today you shall be with Me in Paradise."

noko

You and I have two different beliefs about the condition of the dead.

Does it matter what we believe or does it matter what the truth is UDF?

Ge 3:19

In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.

Yahwey clearly told what death was in Genesis UDF. Dust has not life, does not think, does not have memory and is plainly dead. Now Satan, the one that is opposed to Yahwey said:

Ge 3:4

And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:

Which spiritual Father do you prescribe to UDF? Yahwey or Satan? If you say Yahwey then why do you say the things of Satan then?

Ec 9:6

Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.

Ps 84:11

For Jehovah God is a sun and a shield: Jehovah will give grace and glory; No good thing will he withhold from them that walk uprightly.

UDF, when you are dead, you are dead to God Yahwey the greatest light of all. If your eyes don't see you are truely dark on the inside UDF.

But, according to you, does that mean The Father is the One who DIED? If it is The Father that did everything in Jesus, then that means The Father died, which is definitely NOT a Bible teaching.

Huh?? The Bible is clear who died UDF, as in the Son of Yahwey. Now you are saying he didn't die are you not? By saying he died but was in paradice the very same day. Now this is what Jesus said about what he does:

Joh 5:19

Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.

As for Luke 23:42-43 the comma is in the wrong place since the greek word Semeron (say'-mer-on) means also this day and is used 22 times in the KJV as this day, Now how the translator translates can be very misleading, was Jesus saying today as in paradise he would be in, or is he saying today I tell you, you will be in paradise with me? Meaning Jesus making a pledge to the ex criminal next to him of a promise of paradise. Now the answer is easily found when you understand that Christ must be in the heart of the ground for 3 days and 3 nights as Jonah was in the belly of a fish.

Mt 12:40

For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

So UDF are you saying the ex-crminal was in paradise with Jesus that same very day in the heart of the earth as in a dead man's GRAVE?

Then again when Jesus was resurrected (being firstborn from the dead) after 3 days and 3 nights Jesus said to Mary at the grave after 3 days and 3 nighst:

Joh 20:17

Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

So he hasn't ascended yet to the the Father which he directly witnesses is his God as well as Mary's God. So Jesus was in paradise with the ex-criminal all this time and not with God? Where is this paradise in the heart of the earth UDF, this paradise of the grave you would say? Ye shall not surely die right UDF? That is what Satan says, is that what you claim?

UnDisfellowshipped

Hi Noko,
Thanks for your response.
You said:
(Quoting UnDisfellowshipped:) You and I have two different beliefs about the condition of the dead. (End of Quote)
Does it matter what we believe or does it matter what the truth is UDF?
You are correct -- the most important thing is the TRUTH, no matter what it disproves.
If I knew that what I believed was false, then I would not believe it. I am sure the same is true for you as well.
Noko said:
Ge 3:19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.
Yahwey clearly told what death was in Genesis UDF. Dust has not life, does not think, does not have memory and is plainly dead. Now Satan, the one that is opposed to Yahwey said:
Ge 3:4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
Which spiritual Father do you prescribe to UDF? Yahwey or Satan? If you say Yahwey then why do you say the things of Satan then?
Genesis 3:19: In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.
God was talking about the human body. The key to knowing that He was talking about the BODY, is because God said "for you are dust" -- that is obviously referring to the body, because God wasn't calling the human mind, heart, soul, or spirit DUST was He?
God was saying that human bodies are dust and will return to the dust (or the ground) when the bodies are buried after death.
Satan did not say anything at all to Eve about the condition of people's souls AFTER their bodies die, did he? Satan was telling Eve that her body would NOT DIE (and/or that she would not suffer the spiritual death of being separated from God).
Noko said:
Dust has not life, does not think, does not have memory and is plainly dead.
And that is exactly the condition of THE BODY (which is dust) after death.
Noko said:
Ec 9:6 Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.
Ps 84:11
For Jehovah God is a sun and a shield: Jehovah will give grace and glory; No good thing will he withhold from them that walk uprightly.
UDF, when you are dead, you are dead to God Yahwey the greatest light of all. If your eyes don't see you are truely dark on the inside UDF.
Ecclesiastes 9:6 says that the dead in Sheol/Hades do not have anything to do with what is happening UNDER THE SUN (in other words -- on earth).
I will provide a few Scriptures which explain what happens to the soul after the body dies:
Genesis 25:8: Then Abraham gave up the spirit, and died in a good old age, an old man, and full of years; and was gathered to his people.
What is the "spirit" that left Abraham's body when his body died? And where did that spirit go to?
Luke 23:46: And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, He said, Father, into Your hands I commend My spirit: and having said thus, He gave up the spirit.
What is the "spirit" that left Jesus Christ's Body at death? Where did that spirit go?
Ecclesiastes 12:7: Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
Ecclesiastes 12:7 shows clearly that the body ("the dust") returns to the earth, and the spirit returns to God. What is that spirit?
Numbers 16:22: And they fell upon their faces, and said, O God, the God of the spirits of all flesh, shall one man sin, and will you be angry with all the congregation?
What are the "spirits of all flesh" which Yahweh is the God of?
Now, let us look at the New Testament's teachings about the condition of the soul/spirit after death:
Revelation 6:9-11: And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the Word of God, and for the testimony which they held: And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, Holy and True, do You not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellow servants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.
Revelation 20:4: And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the Word of God, and which had not worshipped the Beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
In Heaven, there are souls of Christians who have died. They can talk and think, and they have knowledge of what is happening on earth. Most importantly -- the souls are WITH CHRIST, resting, being comforted, waiting until they are re-united with their glorified bodies at the Resurrection.
2nd Corinthians 4:18 - 5:10: While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal. For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the Heavens. For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from Heaven: If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked. For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life. Now he that has wrought us for the very same thing is God, who also has given unto us the earn of the Spirit. Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord: (For we walk by faith, not by sight:) We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord. Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him. For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he has done, whether it be good or bad.
Paul said that if his human body were dissolved, he would go to Heaven. Paul said that he desired to be clothed with the "Heavenly house" (glorified immortal body) and not be naked.
I believe that "being naked" refers to being a soul/spirit without a body.
Paul said that while he was in his human body, he was away from the Lord, but when his body dies, he (as a soul/spirit) would go to be present with the Lord in Heaven.
Philippians 1:21-26: In order to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain. But if I live in the flesh, this is the fruit of my labour: yet what I shall choose I know not. For I am in a strait between two, having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ; which is far better: Nevertheless to abide in the flesh is more necessary for you. And having this confidence, I know that I shall abide and continue with you all for your furtherance and joy of faith; That your rejoicing may be more abundant in Jesus Christ for me by my coming to you again.
I think that is self-explanatory.
Matthew 22:31-33: But as concerning the resurrection of the dead, have all of you not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying, I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living. And when the multitude heard this, they were astonished at His Doctrine.
What was the meaning of Matthew 22:31-33? What was the point of it? What was Jesus saying?
Noko said:
(Quoting UnDisfellowshipped:) But, according to you, does that mean The Father is the One who DIED? If it is The Father that did everything in Jesus, then that means The Father died, which is definitely NOT a Bible teaching. (End of Quote)
Huh?? The Bible is clear who died UDF, as in the Son of Yahwey. Now you are saying he didn't die are you not? By saying he died but was in paradice the very same day. Now this is what Jesus said about what he does:
Joh 5:19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.
My point was this:
Jesus said "I WILL RAISE IT" (THE TEMPLE OF HIS BODY), but you claim that it was THE FATHER ONLY who raised the Human Body of Christ.
Well, then, using that reasoning, why not claim that when Jesus said "I will give My Life" that it was actually THE FATHER that gave His Life?
You see, you are "picking-and-choosing" which things were done by The Father alone, through Jesus, and which things were done by Jesus Himself.
The Bible shows that The Trinity resurrected the Human Body of Christ.
Noko said:
As for Luke 23:42-43 the comma is in the wrong place since the greek word Semeron (say'-mer-on) means also this day and is used 22 times in the KJV as this day, Now how the translator translates can be very misleading, was Jesus saying today as in paradise he would be in, or is he saying today I tell you, you will be in paradise with me?
What would the point have been for Jesus to say "This day I say to you"? I mean, is that opposed to "Tomorrow I say to you"? Or, "Yesterday, I say to you"?
Also, never in the entire New Testament, does Jesus ever say "Today I say to you" or "This day I say to you" or "I say to you today" or "I say to you this day" All the way through the New Testament, whenever Jesus said "Verily, verily, I say unto you," the comma always came immediately after the word "you". (Luke 23:42-43 would the one exception according to you, only because of your pre-conceived beliefs).
Some Verses in which the Greek word "semeron" is used:
Mark 14:30: And Jesus saith unto him, Verily I say unto thee, That this day (semeron), even in this night, before the cock crow twice, thou shalt deny me thrice.
Luke 22:34: And he said, I tell thee, Peter, the cock shall not crow this day (semeron), before that thou shalt thrice deny that thou knowest me.
Luke 24:21: But we trusted that it had been he which should have redeemed Israel: and beside all this, today (semeron) is the third day since these things were done.
Luke 2:11: For unto you is born this day (semeron) in the city of David a Savior, which is Christ the Lord.
Matthew 16:3: And in the morning, It will be foul weather today (semeron): for the sky is red and lowering. O ye hypocrites, ye can discern the face of the sky; but can ye not discern the signs of the times?
Matthew 21:28: But what think ye? A certain man had two sons; and he came to the first, and said, Son, go work today (semeron) in my vineyard.
Matthew 27:19: When he was set down on the judgment seat, his wife sent unto him, saying, Have thou nothing to do with that just man: for I have suffered many things this day (semeron) in a dream because of him.
Luke 5:26: And they were all amazed, and they glorified God, and were filled with fear, saying, We have seen strange things today (semeron).
Luke 19:5: And when Jesus came to the place, he looked up, and saw him, and said unto him, Zacchaeus, make haste, and come down; for today (semeron) I must abide at thy house.
Matthew 6:11: Give us this day (semeron) our daily bread.
What did the Greek word "semeron" mean in those Verses?
Noko said:
Meaning Jesus making a pledge to the ex criminal next to him of a promise of paradise. Now the answer is easily found when you understand that Christ must be in the heart of the ground for 3 days and 3 nights as Jonah was in the belly of a fish.
Mt 12:40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
So UDF are you saying the ex-crminal was in paradise with Jesus that same very day in the heart of the earth as in a dead man's GRAVE?
Based upon the rest of the Scriptures, I believe that Jesus Christ's BODY was in the GRAVE for 3 days and 3 nights, and that His Soul was in Paradise with the ex-criminal the very day of their deaths.
Noko said:
Then again when Jesus was resurrected (being firstborn from the dead) after 3 days and 3 nights Jesus said to Mary at the grave after 3 days and 3 nighst:
Joh 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.
So he hasn't ascended yet to the the Father which he directly witnesses is his God as well as Mary's God. So Jesus was in paradise with the ex-criminal all this time and not with God? Where is this paradise in the heart of the earth UDF, this paradise of the grave you would say? Ye shall not surely die right UDF? That is what Satan says, is that what you claim?
John 20:17 could mean that Jesus had not yet ascended to Heaven in His Body, or it could mean that He had not yet ascended into Heaven at all.
Basically, this is what I believe:

I believe that there was a section of Hades called "Paradise" and also called "Abraham's bosom". I believe that before the resurrection of Jesus, that all of the souls of all of God's people went there after their bodies died, and they rested there awaiting the resurrection and ascension of Jesus, in order to be taken into Heaven with Him.
Afterall, in the parable of "The Rich Man and Lazarus", why did Jesus say the soul of Lazarus went to "Abraham's bosom" instead of God's bosom or instead of Heaven? I believe the reason why, is because Lazarus did not go to Heaven (at that time), he went to the "Paradise of Hades".
However, I do believe that the presence of God is in the "Paradise" of Hades/Sheol, because of this Verse:
Psalm 139:8: If I ascend up into Heaven, You are there: if I make my bed in Sheol, behold, You are there.
So, bottom line:
I believe that for 3 days, Jesus Christ's Soul was in the Paradise of Hades, "Abraham's bosom", and that His Soul was re-united with His Body on the third day, and then 40 days later, He ascended into Heaven.

noko

Ec 5:3

For a dream cometh through the multitude of business; and a fool's voice is known by multitude of words.

Taking heed of the above I will try to be short and hopefully to the point. I will briefly talk about Bible death teachings and leave it as that.

God clearly told Adam what death was,

Ge 3:19

In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.

God was talking about Adam whole person, a living soul, not just his body "unto dust shalt thou return". Adam creation is describe as being formed by dust and God gave the breath of life or spirit making the him a living soul.

Ge 2:7

And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Now what of the soul that sins? Soul meaning the whole person, what makes you or me what we are, in short we are living souls.

Eze 18:4

Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.

The body goes back to dust, the soul that sinneth die's, now what of the spirit? First what is the spirit? The spirit is the breath of life which belongs to God which is used as well on all living things.

Ec 3:19	For that which happens to the sons of men happens to animals. Even one thing happens to them. As the one dies, so the other dies. Yes, they have all one breath; and man has no advantage over the animals: for all is vanity.
Ec 3:20	All go to one place. All are from the dust, and all turn to dust again.
Ec 3:21	Who knows the spirit of man, whether it goes upward, and the spirit of the animal, whether it goes downward to the earth?"

Our death is liken to animals, same breath, both with the spirit leaving.

Ec 12:7

And the dust returns to the earth as it was, And the spirit returns to God who gave it.

God is the one that gives the spirit, it is not the person but the life force or breath that makes all life possible. The spirit belongs to God who can take it back when he chooses.

Ps 104:29	You hide your face: they are troubled; You take away their breath: they die, and return to the dust.
Ps 104:30	You send forth your Spirit: they are created. You renew the face of the ground.
Ps 104:31	Let the glory of Yahweh endure forever. Let Yahweh rejoice in his works.

Now Satan said that you would not die if you sinned but would be like God, immortal. Enough said on this part.

UnDisfellowshipped

Noko said:
Ec 3:21
Who knows the spirit of man, whether it goes upward, and the spirit of the animal, whether it goes downward to the earth?"
Our death is liken to animals, same breath, both with the spirit leaving.
Can you explain why the spirit of a man goes upward, but the spirit of an animal goes downward to the earth? What does that mean?
Noko said:
God clearly told Adam what death was,
Ge 3:19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.
God was talking about Adam whole person, a living soul, not just his body "unto dust shalt thou return". Adam creation is describe as being formed by dust and God gave the breath of life or spirit making the him a living soul.
So, are you saying that God referred to the mind and heart of Adam as "dust"?
You are correct -- it was the "breath" or "spirit" that God put inside of Adam that made Adam become a living human being, it was NOT the dust that made him become alive.
God made Adam's BODY out of dust, but Adam DID NOT become a living human being with a mind and heart UNTIL God put His "breath" or "spirit" inside of Adam.
Noko said:
Ge 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
Now what of the soul that sins? Soul meaning the whole person, what makes you or me what we are, in short we are living souls.
Eze 18:4 Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.
The body goes back to dust, the soul that sinneth die's
The reason for the confusion is, because the Hebrew and Greek words for "soul" can mean (1) a living human being, (2) a living animal, (3) the emotions and/or thoughts of a human, and (4) it can also mean the "spirit" that lives on after death.
Here are examples of the different uses of the word "soul":
In the following Verses, the word "soul" is referring to the conscious part of the human being that lives on after death:
Revelation 6:9-11: And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellow servants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.
Revelation 20:4: And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshiped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Luke 12:4-5: And I say unto you my friends, Be not afraid of them that kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do. But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into Gehenna; yea, I say unto you, Fear him.
Matthew 10:28: And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in Gehenna.
1st Thessalonians 5:23: And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Hebrews 4:12: For the Word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
1st Kings 17:21-23: And he stretched himself upon the child three times, and cried unto the LORD, and said, O LORD my God, I pray thee, let this child's soul come into him again. And the LORD heard the voice of Elijah; and the soul of the child came into him again, and he revived. And Elijah took the child, and brought him down out of the chamber into the house, and delivered him unto his mother: and Elijah said, See, thy son liveth.
Job 27:8: For what is the hope of the hypocrite, though he hath gained, when God taketh away his soul?
Psalm 16:9-11: Therefore my heart is glad, and my glory rejoiceth: my flesh also shall rest in hope. For thou wilt not leave my soul in Sheol; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption. Thou wilt show me the path of life: in thy presence is fullness of joy; at thy right hand there are pleasures forevermore.
Acts 2:26-27: Therefore did my heart rejoice, and my tongue was glad; moreover also my flesh shall rest in hope: Because thou wilt not leave my soul in Hades, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.
Acts 2:31: He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in Hades, neither his flesh did see corruption.
Psalm 86:13: For great is thy mercy toward me: and thou hast delivered my soul from the lowest Sheol.
The following Verse shows that the word "soul" can also mean a living human being:
Ezekiel 18:20: The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.
Also, I have some very important questions for you about the Word (Logos):
You believe that Jesus existed in Heaven as the "Word" and "Son" before He was born as a Human, correct?
You also believe that God transferred the Word from Heaven into Mary's womb, correct?

My question to you is: What did God transfer from the Word in Heaven into Mary's womb?
Did God kill the Word, and then re-create a new "Son" inside of Mary? If that is so, then it wasn't actually the Word that became Flesh, was it?
Did God transfer the "Life-Force" ("spirit") from the Word and put it inside of a Human Body inside of Mary? If that is the case, then that must mean the "Life-Force" contains memory and personality. If the "Life-Force" does not contain memory and personality, then in what way did "The Word become Flesh"?
Did God transfer the entire Word being into Mary's womb, inside of a Human Body? If so, then that means Jesus was "The Word" being and a Human Being at the same time.
Did the Word always exist in Heaven, but God created a Human Body and sent the Word to live inside of the Human Body, and actually "become Flesh" and be born as 100% Word and 100% Human?
Exactly how did the Word "become Flesh"?
noko

Can you explain why the spirit of a man goes upward, but the spirit of an animal goes downward to the earth? What does that mean?

That is not what it says UDF.
So, are you saying that God referred to the mind and heart of Adam as "dust"?
The thoughts do perish when someone die's UDF.
Ps 146:4 His spirit departs, and he returns to the earth. In that very day, his thoughts perish.
Soul in the Bible means what makes you as in mind, body, thoughts, heart and what not. Now Satan said it wasn't so when you die.
You believe that Jesus existed in Heaven as the "Word" and "Son" before He was born as a Human, correct?
Yep.
You also believe that God transferred the Word from Heaven into Mary's womb, correct?
His life.
My question to you is: What did God transfer from the Word in Heaven into Mary's womb?
He laid down his life in heaven to become flesh UDF, so the answer again is his life.
Did God kill the Word
No. The word laid down his own life for a sacrafice for us.
Did God transfer the "Life-Force" ("spirit") from the Word and put it inside of a Human Body inside of Mary? If that is the case, then that must mean the "Life-Force" contains memory and personality.
Now Jesus had to learn like any other child UDF, he didn't have infinite wisdom. He had to be disclipline just like the rest of us. His diapers had to be changed and he did suck from Mary's breast. He was Human. The knowledge of his formal existence was wiped out until he was annointed by God. In other words no memory was there until he was annointed and the heavens where opened up to him.
Now the rest of your questions are either jeberish (sorry) or I don't have time to respond right now. More later.
UnDisfellowshipped

Noko,
I definitely understand not having enough time to reply -- but it seems to me that you have intentionally not commented on the Revelation Verses about the souls of dead people being in Heaven.
Also, you claimed that the Bible DOES NOT say that the spirit of man goes upward and that the spirit of animals goes downward, but you are wrong, because the Bible clearly says those exact things right here:
Ecclesiastes 3:21: Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward, and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth?
Noko said:
Soul in the Bible means what makes you as in mind, body, thoughts, heart and what not.
It definitely does not always mean that.
For instance, when the Bible says that the soul is in the blood, does that mean the mind, body, heart and "what not" are inside of the blood?
Leviticus 17:11: For the life [Hebrew: "nehfesh" / "soul"] of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls [Hebrew: "nehfesh"]: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul [Hebrew: "nehfesh"].
So, you are saying that Christ sacrificed His Life TWICE?
The Bible clearly says that Christ made ONE SACRIFICE for all time.
Hebrews 9:24-28: For Christ did not enter into the holies made by hands, which are copies of the true, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God on our behalf; not that He should offer Himself often, as the high priest enters into the Holies every year with another's blood -- since it would have been necessary for Him to suffer often from the foundation of the world; but now, once at the consummation of the ages, He has been revealed for the removal of sin through the sacrifice of Himself. And just as it is appointed for men once to die, and after this judgment, so also Christ having been offered once in order to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time apart from sin for salvation, to those eagerly waiting for Him.
Hebrews 10:10-14: By which will we are sanctified through the offering of the Body of Jesus Christ once for all. And every priest stands ministering daily and offering repeatedly the same sacrifices, which are never able to take away sins. But He Himself, having offered one Sacrifice for sins forever, He sat down at the right hand of God, from that time waiting till His enemies are placed as a footstool for His feet. For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified.

The Holy Spirit... and DOES God Speak to Us?

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