by AGuest 128 Replies latest watchtower bible
Hm. the jesus is god party wins by sheer verbiage.
the jesus is NOT god party is a lot more fun.
CZAR
jesus wasn't god. he didn't say half the things the bible says he did. He didn't do any miracles. He's dead, and he isn't coming back. End of discussion (yah, right!)
Want proof? If you believe the bible, jesus said, "I am coming quickly" TWO THOUSAND YEARS AGO! He isn't here! So he either didn't say it, or he was a delusional, or he was a liar. Pick one.
Want proof? If you believe the bible, jesus said, "I am coming quickly" TWO THOUSAND YEARS AGO! He isn't here! So he either didn't say it, or he was a delusional, or he was a liar. Pick one.
LMAO! Sheesh you should be aware there are many definitions to that phrase!
I think, he meant something other then, I'll be right back.
LOL. . .
I expected some verbage but the whole Bible! (exagerating). Sorry for those who cut and pasted or wrote all of that. Please don't waste your time in the future, with me that is. When verses are randomly, well should I say out of context, I can handle a few but hundreds I cannot. In other words if you want to discuss one principle or idea with me or relate an idea I will respond. If I see a deluge of scriptures I will not tie myself to them and cause a debate, instead I rather open up my Bible and read. Does make one feel like I ignited a spark or something. Plus exactly what Hamas said about the contradictory at times interpretations the many different renderings have does lead to allot of confusion and obvious mis-understandings. But to use them in that order to convict or judge or to possibly justify oneself standing seems. . . . well anyways where was I. . .
Oh yes,
1Co 3:9 For we are God`s fellow workers. You are God`s farming, God`s building.
Now who are God's fellow workers? Who else helps God? How about Angels?
Once again, Let the waters here be gathered together to one place, and let the dry land appear. Hoover dam was then built with the land below dry while the waters formed behind it, behold, it was very good. Peace and love to all.
I like this saying:
"Believe what you want -- you will anyway".
It applies to several people on this Thread (I'm not naming names, lol).
Noko, just curious, did you see my question I asked you?
Answer this very important question for me please (which DJ already asked): If Henry Ford had told everyone that he had created every part of ALL of his cars BY HIMSELF, ALONE, and that NO ONE HELPED HIM, wouldn't that have made Henry Ford a HUGE LIAR? Well, Jehovah said that He created Heaven and Earth ALONE and that NO ONE WAS WITH HIM: Isaiah 44:24: So says Jehovah, your Redeemer, and He who formed you from the womb, I am Jehovah who makes all things; who stretches out the Heavens alone; who spreads out the Earth; who was with Me? Job 9:8: Who alone stretches out the Heavens, Treads on the waves of the sea;
So, you Noko, just like AGuest and also JosephMalik (another poster) would make Jehovah a HUGE LIAR by saying that Jesus is not Jehovah, the same as Henry Ford would have been a HUGE LIAR if he had claimed to have made all of his cars ALONE and NO ONE WAS WITH HIM.
__________________________________________________ Even AGuest believes that the Old Testament was Inspired (at least I think she said she believed that in one of her Threads). Also, Noko, did you see my comment about the Greatest Act of Love? Jesus Himself said: "No one has greater love than this, that one should lay down his life on behalf of his friends." (John 15:13) So, Noko, did an inferior, created being perform a greater act of love than God ever has? Or, did God come in the Flesh as Jesus and perform the greatest act of love ever? Or, do you have another explanation for this?
____________________________________________ Czar, If you read other Scriptures in the Bible, the explanation of Jesus Christ's "Coming Soon" is shown clearly: 2nd Peter 3:8-9: But don't forget this one thing, beloved, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. The Lord is not slow concerning His promise, as some count slowness; but is patient with us, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. Psalm 90:4: For a thousand years in Your sight Are but as yesterday when it is past, As a watch in the night. So, if a thousand years is only one day in Jesus Christ's viewpoint, then wouldn't "two days" [two thousand years] be "soon". __________________________________________________
Noko said:
Plus exactly what Hamas said about the contradictory at times interpretations the many different renderings have does lead to allot of confusion and obvious mis-understandings. But to use them in that order to convict or judge or to possibly justify oneself standing seems. . . .. . .
I could say the same thing about listening to "voices", especially "voices" that have spoken some of the things AGuest has posted on this Board.
If you don't believe in the Bible, then well, so be it. I can't do anything to change that, only God can.
If you truly want to find out which Translations are most accurate and reliable, and which Translations are closest to the Manuscripts and closest to the writings of the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd Century Christians, then you can find that information using http://www.Google.com .
I would like to see your replies to my questions I posted above, if you do not mind.
Noko said:
1Co 3:9 For we are God`s fellow workers. You are God`s farming, God`s building.
Now who are God's fellow workers? Who else helps God? How about Angels?
I am not sure I understand your point.
God enjoys allowing humans and angels to do things for Him. But I don't see what you are trying to say.
God does not NEED anyone to do anything for Him. He chooses to allow humans and angels to do things for Him because He WANTS to, definitely not because He NEEDS to.
The Bible clearly states at Isaiah 44:24 and Job 9:8 that JEHOVAH created Heaven and Earth ALONE and NO ONE WAS WITH HIM.
Jehovah did not use ANYONE to "help" Him create Heaven and Earth.
The Father, The Son, and The Spirit created all things. No one else "helped" out in creation. In fact, all the way through the Inspired Old Testament, and the Inspired New Testament, being the Creator is one of the main identifying marks of being the Only True God.
I have noticed that every non-Trinitarian I have ever discussed the Bible with on this Website, could not stand the idea that Jesus Christ is the Creator, as Hebrews 1:10 clearly shows.
They could not stand the belief that we are supposed to honor Jesus equally with The Father, even though Jesus Himself said that all people should do that very thing at John 5:23!
Let's take a look at the BOTTOM LINE:
* Not one Verse in the entire Bible says that Jesus Christ was ever created.
* Not one Verse in the entire Bible says that Jesus Christ is not God Almighty.
* Not one Verse in the entire Bible says that Jesus Christ should not be worshiped as God.
* Not one Verse in the entire Bible says that Jesus Christ is Michael the Archangel.
* Not one Verse in the entire Bible says that Jesus Christ should not be prayed to as God.
* The Bible does say that Jesus should be honored equally with The Father
* The Bible does say that all things were created by, through, and for Jesus Christ.
* The Bible does say that Jesus Christ was God in the Flesh.
AGuest said:
Oh, and I also find it quite interesting that at one point we can refer to "wisdom" as my Lord and a "master worker,"... yet, when such "worker" SAYS he was PRODUCED... we question that it is indeed him of whom we are speaking. Well, in TRUTH... it IS him... and he was not a "master worker"... but a FOSTERLING... which is a LEARNER... which my Lord TOLD his disciples he was. You doubt it? I ask YOU: ask HIM. Listen... and hear for yourself when the Truth speaks.
I'm not sure who you are referring to when you said "at one point we can refer to "wisdom" as my Lord and a "master worker,"... yet, when such "worker" SAYS he was PRODUCED... we question that it is indeed him of whom we are speaking."
If I am not mistaken, you never responded to my questions I asked you about Proverbs Chapter 8 and "Wisdom".
Why should I believe that "Wisdom" in Chapter 8 is Jesus?
"Wisdom" is referred to as "she" and "her". Why is that?
Jesus is ALWAYS referred to as "He" and "Him" all the way through the Bible.
And, if there was ever a time when "Wisdom" did not exist, then that means God did not have wisdom at some point.
Also, if "Wisdom" is Jesus, then who is "Prudence"?
It is the Jehovah's Witnesses that claim Jesus is the "Master Worker" in Proverbs Chapter 8.
Several Bible Translations do not say that "Wisdom" was "produced".
Instead, the King James Version reads: Proverbs 8:22: The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old.
I have noticed that every non-Trinitarian I have ever discussed the Bible with on this Website, could not stand the idea that Jesus Christ is the Creator, as Hebrews 1:10 clearly shows.
Someone HAS explained Hebrews 1:10 to you… but you fail to see the TRUTH in that explanation because of YOUR assertion that the book of Hebrews… was “inspired” and therefore, infallible. And yet, the very fact that although it APPEARS that Hebrews 1:10 is speaking about my LORD… the FACT that it quotes Psalm 102:25, which Psalm was spoken BY MY LORD… OF the Father… shows you its fallibility. You, like others… subscribe the Psalms… which WERE inspired… entirely to David as the speaker. You are in error… and if you would condescend to READ them… from beginning to end… then in that case, you would understand WHO is being quoted at Hebrews 1:10… and the circumstances.
They could not stand the belief that we are supposed to honor Jesus equally with The Father, even though Jesus Himself said that all people should do that very thing at John 5:23!
Rubbish. This verse simply takes into account those… LIKE THE WTBTS… who honor the Father… WITHOUT honoring the Son. Those who BYPASS the Son… who ignore the exhortation as Psalm 2:12 to kiss… the SON. Why should we kiss and honor the Son? Because “to him that calls for the honor, honor”… and because he is the One LIFTED UP by God… to be gazed upon so as to “KEEP living.” Yet, it was MOSES… who lifted up the copper serpent; it did not lift itself up… nor did Moses lift himself up. And JUST like Moses lifted up the copper, so the Son of Man was lifted up… BYGOD.
What you and others FAIL to get the sense of is that my Lord did not need to become a “son”… if he and God were one and the same. But I will show YOU… from the BIBLE… where your errors are, based on what YOU state, below. However, I must also say to you that what I will show you FROM THE BIBLE… is not mine, but that which has been given ME… from my Lord… to show YOU. Had you gone directly to HIM, however, you… and those like you… would not NEED the Bible… or the written Law… the “tutor”… leading to Christ. You COULD have gone directly to HIM, just as he had invited you – John 7:37, 38; John 5:39, 40
· Not one Verse in the entire Bible says that Jesus Christ was ever created.
You are in error - Proverbs 8:22, which is corroborated by Revelation 3:14 – Note, my Lord was PRODUCED… the BEGINNING of the creation… by God.
* Not one Verse in the entire Bible says that Jesus Christ is not God Almighty.
Again, you err - Luke 1:31, 32, 35 – Note, my Lord… was also… MARY’s son; was he also, then, Mary? If by means of being God’s SON… he is GOD… then by means of being MARY’s son… would he not also be Mary?
* Not one Verse in the entire Bible says that Jesus Christ should not be worshiped as God.
Another error - Matthew 4:10; Luke 4:8 – My Lord himself is recorded to have quoted SCRIPTURE which says “JAH alone is to be worshipped.” Why? Because JAH… is the God that HE (my Lord) worshipped. For JAH… is HIS God… and he (Christ)… ours.
* Not one Verse in the entire Bible says that Jesus Christ is Michael the Archangel.
On this, we absolutely agree. Michael… is not my Lord… but one of the two (2) cherub that was “covering”… the Ark of the Covenant. He is an angel of the Ark… or arkangel… whose voice… is like a trumpet. He is the angel who gave John the Revelation, which Christ gave to HIM… and who told John NOT to fall down and worship HIM… but to worship… God – Revelation 1:10, 15; 4:1; 22:9
* Not one Verse in the entire Bible says that Jesus Christ should not be prayed to as God.
You are in error – While we may SPEAK to Christ… all day long… wherever we are… when we SPEAK to God… my Lord taught that we should do so IN PRIVATE… and that it is THROUGH HIM that we must approach. And it is done in the manner of Joseph… and Pharaoh(*), as well as the ancient arrangement of the Israelite priesthood: one MUST… go through the High Priest – Matthew 6:9-13; John 14:6; John 10:1-3
*The Bible does say that Jesus should be honored equally with The Father
But THAT… is because the SON… was APPOINTED to such position of honor… BY… the Father. “All authority” was GIVEN him – he did not originally possess it. Matthew 28:18; John 17:1-26
* The Bible does say that all things were created by, through, and for Jesus Christ.
You are in error - The Bible says… that all things were created… by GOD… alone… USING… Christ as the means for such creation… THROUGH him… and that such creation… was brought into existence… FOR him. The word “by” is a mistransliteration of the Greek word that also means “by means of”, which you yourself attested to by posting the word meanings that you did.
* The Bible does say that Jesus Christ was God in the Flesh.
Again, you err – You would have these people believe that the Bible says, “And God… became flesh,” when it TRUTH it says that my Lord, “the WORD… became flesh”… and further clarifies WHO that Word is, because it goes ON to say “and resided among us and we had a view of his glory, a glory such as belongs… to an only-begotten SON… FROM A FATHER…” - John 1:14
And the Revelation, which WAS inspired… also tells us who that Word is. Revelation 19:13
I'm not sure who you are referring to when you said "at one point we can refer to "wisdom" as my Lord and a "master worker,"... yet, when such "worker" SAYS he was PRODUCED... we question that it is indeed him of whom we are speaking."
You must go back and re-read the posts, then…
If I am not mistaken, you never responded to my questions I asked you about Proverbs Chapter 8 and "Wisdom".My apology, for I did not see your question, truly.
Why should I believe that "Wisdom" in Chapter 8 is Jesus?
You do not HAVE to believe anything. But HE himself says that it is: HE is the One brought forth… with labor pains. Proverbs 8:24, 25; Revelation 12:2
What you and many others cannot see... yet... is that ALL of this… is about two (2) men, two (2) women… and the children they bring forth:
1. A “good ‘man’”, JAH… the Most Holy One of Israel, the Almighty God and Creator of Heaven and Earth…
2. His “free” wife, a “woman”… the spirit realm… Jerusalem Above… or “Sarah”… the NEW Covenant – who is initially “barren” but eventually has children… but in comparison, whose children are few… but, since their MOTHER is “free”… THEY are “free”… “born”… NOT in the manner of the flesh… but in the manner of the SPIRIT… by means of a PROMISE…
3. His “slave” wife, another “woman”… the physical realm… Earth… or “Hagar”… the OLD Covenant – whose children are first and more numerous… and since their MOTHER is a “slave”… THEY are slaves… born… in the manner of the FLESH…
4. Another “man”, a wicked one, the Adversary… whose runs around sowing HIS “seed”… with the “slave” woman… so as to produce “weeds”… which weeds try to CHOKE the “wheat” of the “good” man’s “seed”… and which weeds, because they have VESSELS that look JUST LIKE WHEAT… are often mistaken FOR wheat… but in fact are not…
5. The child(ren) that these bring forth - wheat… or weeds – starting with Adam (a weed, by means of the "father" that "begat" him)… and Christ (wheat, by means of the "father" that "begat" HIM). One is either the offspring of ADAM… the Son born to the slave woman by means of the FLESH… and therefore enslaved to the flesh... or one is the offspring of the Christ… born to the FREE woman… by means of a promise... and therefore "set free" by that One!
If you can grasp this… get the SENSE of this truth… perhaps you will begin to see other truths!
"Wisdom" is referred to as "she" and "her". Why is that?
Because the Hebrew word “wisdom” is a feminine word, just as “casa”… which means HOUSE… is a feminine word in Spanish. Like in English, when we refer to a “ship” as a “she” – in this case, although the article is referred as being feminine, the WORD ship is NOT feminine: a ship... is not a woman... it is not IN TRUTH... a "her" or a "she". It is the WORD that is feminine... not the ARTICLE about which it speaks.
And this is what a great many things "written" boils down to: the WORDS... and their transLITERATION. What the word LITERALLY meant... and what it is translated to mean. "Wisdom" is NOT feminine in English; indeed, in ENGLISH... it is neither masculine OR feminine... for it is intangible.
Jesus is ALWAYS referred to as "He" and "Him" all the way through the Bible.
Except when he refers to himself as “wisdom”. In Greek, the word is “sophia” – by means of the “a” on the end, it is a FEMININE word. But, if I were to say to, ummmmm… say, Noko, who I now know to be male, “You are wise, dear Noko, and you have wisdom in you,” would I being saying that he was female and had a woman in him? Truly? Think about it. It’s is WORDS that are throwing you off! That is why I stress… as my Lord stressed to ME… COME TO HIM – HE can explain to you what was TRULY meant. For earthling man… is… fallible. Particularly in his interpretations and transliterations.
And, if there was ever a time when "Wisdom" did not exist, then that means God did not have wisdom at some point.You are in error. The ONLY thing that did not have a start... was God. Wisdom… was IN God... and was PRODUCED… brought INTO EXISTENCE… by God. It... he... came OUT of God... so as to be brought INTO EXISTENCE. If wisdom is not MANIFESTED… then… it does not EXIST. If it is not PRODUCED… brought into EXISTENCE… then it cannot be MANIFESTED. YOU... have children IN you... by means of having "seed" in you (if a man)... or eggs... if a woman. They are IN you. However, it is not until a child is PRODUCED... that such comes... into existence. Think, UnDf’d. THINK.
Also, if "Wisdom" is Jesus, then who is "Prudence"?
Ummmmm… “prudence”? I dunno, someone from the Mayflower? I don’t know of what you speak. I THINK you are actually referring to the same thing... for in ENGLISH, the two words, wisdom and prudence, have pretty much the same connotation.
It is the Jehovah's Witnesses that claim Jesus is the "Master Worker" in Proverbs Chapter 8.
They are in error. My Lord… was a master FOSTERLING… or LEARNER. He is the One to whom ALL the ways of God were TAUGHT… so that HE could “take it from here, Son.”
Several Bible Translations do not say that "Wisdom" was "produced".
And yet, several do. Which one, then, are you to believe? Let me tell you how I know the TRUTH about this:
My Lord took me to the 8 th Chapter of Proverbs… and told me to read. I did. And I thought I read just fine. Didn’t quite understand EVERYTHING… but I thought I had a fairly good grasp of what was being said. Until my Lord said to me:
“Now, be still… and let ME read to YOU.”
What?! He's gonna read to me?! And he did. In his “low tone”… took me through it… verse… by… verse… as he has on so many other occasions. And that is one of the earliest ways I learned to hear: I can read and lean on my OWN understanding… or I can move myself out of the way… and let HIM read and tell me. For as he has said to ME: “Everything I will tell you is written; however, not everything that is written is what I will tell you.” Thus, it is how I have learned Hebrew and Aramaic to the extent I have: he TELLS me what the words truly mean.
Instead, the King James Version reads: Proverbs 8:22: The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old.
But it would still mean the SAME thing - my Father DID possess my Lord. My Lord CAME out of my Father - His SEED. That is why vegetables are called "produce"! They are the "product" of the land. My Lord... is the "product" of my Father, His SEED... which was first possessed... and then "produced" - the TRUE VINE... the ROOT (of Jesse)... which ROOT... is SPROUT! And vines, roots, sprouts... come from SEEDS. A man's seed... is His semen... his PROGENY. It is where his CHILDREN come from... when combined with the egg of his WIFE.
(And note, a "wife" is not limited to the one he is legally married to... but includes those with whom he is PHYSICALLY "married" to... "connected" with by means of the sexual act... so that they become "one" flesh. That is why when speaking of overseers, it said "husbands of ONE wife" not meaning one at a time, but ONE... ever.)
1. Adam, as a MAN... was "produced"... with the Earth... the physical realm... as his "mother"... and was half physical/half spiritual. For his mother was physical, but his father spiritual.
2. Christ, as a MAN... was "produced"... with Mary... a fleshly woman... as his "mother"... and was half physical/half spirit. For his mother was physical, but his father spiritual.
3. Christ, as a SPIRIT... was "produced"... with Jerusalem Above... the spirit realm... as his "mother"... and was ALL SPIRIT. For his mother was SPIRITUAL... as was his FATHER.
Thus, it does not MATTER which version, UnDf’d… TRULY! What MATTERS… is the TRUTH. What did the SPIRIT mean… when it had the words written DOWN? THAT… is what MATTERS. And there is only ONE way you can know: John 5:39, 40.
As regards my reference to Joseph and Pharaoh, above, it is like this:
Pharaoh was a great man… which a great amount of wealth. Yet, because of his good deed in helping Pharaoh to prepare for what could have been disaster in his land, a younger one, Joseph, was appointed over ALL of Pharaoh’s belongings. There was NO ONE greater than this young man – save Pharaoh himself. Joseph… was SECOND in command… and could just that command to do ANYTHING he wished… for he was even given Pharaoh’s SIGNET RING… to speak and sign on behalf of Pharaoh.
Thus, if ANYONE… wanted ANYTHING… in the lands of Pharaoh… such one… HAD… to go to… JOSEPH… to get it! NO ONE, except Joseph himself… could go… to Pharaoh. You want some of Pharaoh’s grain? Go to Joseph. You want some of Pharaoh’s water? Go to Joseph. And by means of that signet ring… Joseph… could DISPENSE… ANYTHING… that belonged… TO PHARAOH. By means of this AUTHORITY… Joseph… was… in effect… “Pharaoh”. Technically… but not literally. Joseph’s POWER… COULD BE REMOVED… but only… BY Pharaoh!
Okay, so what if you decided you didn’t WANT to go to Joseph? Could you just go to Pharaoh? What if you decided you didn’t AGREE with Joseph? Could you go to Pharaoh? What if you decided that YOU… didn’t NEED… Joseph? Could you eat or drink in Pharaoh’s lands?
But now let me ask you: By means of this arrangement, does it not appear that for all intents and purposes Joseph… HAS THE SAME POWER AND AUTHORITY… as Pharaoh himself? But that that make HIM Pharaoh? Or is it not that there is still one GREATER than Joseph, the one who gave HIM such power and authority… and thereby… can also TAKE AWAY such power and authority?
That is why is says that ALL things have been subjected to my Lord… EXCEPT the One who SUBJECTED all things… TO him.
Hear… and get the SENSE of it.
A slave of Christ,
SJ
* Not one Verse in the entire Bible says that Jesus Christ was ever created.
Col 1:15 who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. (Firstborn means a beginning or was created.)
* Not one Verse in the entire Bible says that Jesus Christ is not God Almighty.
Isa 9:6 For to us a child is born, to us a son is given; and the government shall be on his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace. (Jesus Christ shall be, future tense, not complete at time of writting, a Mighty God, that is less then Almighty the highest one can be.)
* Not one Verse in the entire Bible says that Jesus Christ should not be worshiped as God.
But the hour comes, and now is, when the true worshippers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for the Father seeks such to be his worshippers.
* Not one Verse in the entire Bible says that Jesus Christ is Michael the Archangel.
I havn't found it either, but then I wasn't looking to hard . Enough of that, lets move on.
The Father, The Son, and The Spirit created all things.
Did the Father, The Son, and The Spirit create Evil, the Lie and Death? In other words is Jah the Father of the lie? Myself I would say no way. Now some Bibles do indeed say at Isa 45:7 "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things." Now did the Father, The Son, and The Spirit create the Model T UnDisfellowshipped? or did Henry Ford? Then again if the Father, The Son, and The Sprirt created all things then any wrong must be their fault, right? Isn't that what you are saying even though you will deny it?
Oh, UnDisfellowshipped who is the us in this statement found in Ge 1:26 God said, "Let us make man in our image, . . ."
Well I have to go, sorry if I didn't answer any more questions, the one who truely answer questions is Christ.
Thanks AGuest for clarifying many things through our Lord JAHESHUA MISCHAJAH the Firstborn Son of Jah.
Ah, UnDf'd... I see what you are asking...
The King James Version says, of Wisdom, at Proverbs 8:12:
"I, Wisdom, dwell with Prudence."
It seems that you have taken this verse to MEAN...
"I, Wisdom... a person... live... co-habitate... with Prudence... a person."
But you are in error if you think this. For in TRUTH, the verse MEANS...
"I, Wisdom... a person, Christ... live with... insight, discernment, understanding, knowledge, shrewdness."
For those are what "prudence" is. Have you not heard of a "hard" woman called a "prude"? Well, that is what a prudent person may be called. It is not used as a good term, but should be. For prudence... or being prudent... is a desirable thing. Being a prude, however, is not.
Thus, the saying is MEANT in the SAME way, as if YOU, UnDf'd, were to say:
"I, UnDf'd, dwell with insight" or "I, UnDf'd... live with discernment."
You don't literally dwell with a person named "insight"... or live with a person named "discernment."
Now, how can we KNOW that this is what is meant, rather than a literal person? Because of what the word "prudence" MEANS. Because ONE of the words describing "prudence"... is "craftiness". So, would it be LOGICAL to think that what is said really meant:
"I, Wisdom, dwell with Craftiness?"
Is "craftiness" a GOOD thing? No, for it means "guile". Deceptive. Sly. Slick. And while those things might define those who THINK they are wise... such is the wisdom... of the world. Proverbs, however, is not talking... about the wisdom... of the world... but TRUE Wisdom... that which was "brought forth"... from God.
Hear... and get the sense of it.
A slave of Christ,
SJ
