Explosion at Manchester Arena - Fatalities Confirmed

by cofty 342 Replies latest members politics

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  WhatshallIcallmyself

  The Rebel -

  All a 'Moderate Muslim' needs to do to prove they are right is to show how these 'radicals' have misinterpreted their religion by showing how they (the moderate) actually follow Muhammad example precisely and how the written word backs their position up. Why is that only the radicals can do that, leaving the moderates to hand wave and accuse those asking them difficult questions of being racist/Islamophobic/intolerant/ignorant/etc...

  Perhaps your friend could answer that without resorting to a smart putdown...
  
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  Simon

  show how these 'radicals' have misinterpreted their religion

  Great point. Expect crickets or an attempt to change or derail the conversation - that seems to be the usual tactic.

  We always hear (after each attack by Muslims) that "they don't represent Islam" but no one ever explains why that is. What exactly is it they are misinterpreting and doing wrong?

  And if they don't represent Islam at all, how come it's always Muslims who are following it? Shouting about Allah as they are slitting throats? A strange and amazing coincidence.

  The sad fact is that more Muslims are more outraged if someone draws a cartoon of their prophet than if their members slaughter Kafir. Maybe the "moderate" Muslims are not quite the hypocritical fakes they pretend and we assume them to be ...
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  The Rebel

  Whatshallicallmyself & Simon :- ( Q) "show how these " radicals" have misinterpreted this point?

  A) I have now shown my muslim friend this thread, and she is unable to understand or I assume, not interested enough to respond to many of the questions.

  However when my family next visit her family, I will ask the father to answer your question, without " Expert cricket or an attempt to derail the conversation" That's no disrespect to my Muslim friend, it's just that the thread was of little interest to her, she was more concerned with my son showing her the new hens.
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  Simon

  So you have a strong opinion that they are not Muslim but when challenged on it and asked to explain why, you really have no clue...

  Shouldn't you spend some time to educate yourself so you are not one of the regressive left, shouting people down and criticizing / labelling other people's views but without understanding what the issue is all about?

  My bet is that you will never ask your friend to explain and that even if you do, she will have no answer either.

  If there were an answer, we'd have heard it by now.
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  The Rebel

  Actually Simon we did come up with an answer, not a qualified answer, but an answer. Islam is neither peaceful nor violent because it is an ideology not a religion, and not a specific person,The people under the umbrella of Islam are both peaceful and violent...but knowing that answer was only going to cause a heated discussion, I thought I would ask my friends father for his answer. ( What was wrong with that?)
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  LoveUniHateExams

  What was wrong with that? - it seems like an attempt on the part of your Muslim friend to not answer questions and/or shut down honest, difficult debate.
  

  Islam is neither peaceful nor violent - then what the hell is it?!

  My guess is Islam is both peaceful and violent.

  Sufi, Ahmadiyya and integrated Western Muslims are indeed peaceful, and represent the peaceful side of Islam.

  The Saudi regime, the Iranian regime, Salafi terrorists, Hezbollah and Sharia represent the violent, shitty side of Islam.

  Here's the key point: Islam must not be exempt from discussion and critical examination.

  Edited to add: just saw that your friend thinks Islam is both peaceful and violent. So, she disagrees every time our politicians say "Islam is a religion of peace!" Shouldn't our politicians say "Islam is a religion of both peace and violence"?
  
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  The Rebel

  Loveunhateexams " Edited to add: ....your friend thinks Islam is "BOTH " peaceful and violent.

  Wrong " NEITHER" was the word used, not the word " BOTH". I hope you appreciate the big difference, in the meaning of those words? And now re-read what was written.

  And whilst you say, our politicians referred to Islam as a " religion" my friend used the word " Ideology" I hope you appreciate the big difference in the meaning of those Words?

  These mssunderstandings of words are why to save a long thread of heated discussion, I thought it best for my friends father answer the challenges questions. Not that, we don't have a " clue" but some people are better at communicating than others.
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  Simon

  Actually Simon we did come up with an answer, not a qualified answer, but an answer. Islam is neither peaceful nor violent because it is an ideology not a religion, and not a specific person,The people under the umbrella of Islam are both peaceful and violent...but knowing that answer was only going to cause a heated discussion, I thought I would ask my friends father for his answer. ( What was wrong with that?)

  Using that reasoning, Nazism wasn't violent either but we all know it was. As I predicted, you come up with a non-answer to avoid having to admit the facts and so did your Muslim friend. Not a surprise at all.

  Islam IS violent - it's violence is enshrined in its teachings and commandments like no other religion and runs through it like lettering through a stick of blackpool rock.

  The Muslims who are least violent are the least Islamic in the same way that JWs who celebrate birthdays, christmas, are immoral and don't do any preaching are the least JW-like ... at some point you have to ask - why are you even calling yourself one of these? Because you're not.

  The only good Muslim is a fake one. A devout Muslim is a monster because that is the definition of what it is to be a good and devout Muslim according to Islam itself.
  
  
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  The Rebel

  Simon :- " The only good Muslim is a fake one"

  F. Scott Fitzgerald " Whenever you feel like criticizing someone, just remember not everybody has had the advantages you have had"

  Simon :- " as I predicted you came up with a non answer to avoid having to admit the facts, and so did you Muslim friend.

  A) I hardly think it fair to say that about her. In fact to ask her to read this long thread and give it her attention, why should she?

  However It would have been nice if you had replied " thanks for suggesting, asking the girls father to reply to the comments on this thread. It would be nice to get the views of a Muslim man and please let him know I look forward to his comments"
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  Simon

  So, more handwaving and, as I predicted, attempts to derail the discussion into being about something else ... in this case how I'm supposed to talk to someone I don't know, won't meet and don't care about.

  I don't care whether, how or what you talk to your "friend" about. It was you who decided to interject someone else's assumed opinion into a discussion they are not even a part of and now complaining about it.

  The fact remains: you are ignorant on the topic yet determined that your viewpoint should overrule everyone else's and not be questioned. That's not how discussions work.