This is horrible....

by desib77 134 Replies latest social current

• 

  talesin

  Let's go in a different direction.

  Here's a couple of paragraphs from an article in the Boston Herald. When I read it, I thought WTF??? What is going with the US gov't detaining private contractors that are working in Iraq? Or is there more to Berg than meets than we know?

  Not bashing,,, just questioning, as should be done imo. (bold mine)

  Link: http://bostonherald.com/international/view.bg?articleid=27589

  Michael Berg lashed out at the U.S. military and Bush administration, saying his son might still be alive if he had been allowed to leave the country on March 30, as he had originally planned.
  ``I think a lot of people are fed up with the lack of civil rights this thing has caused,'' he said. ``I don't think this administration is committed to democracy.''
  Nick Berg spoke to his parents on March 24 and said he would return home March 30. But he was detained by Iraqi police at a checkpoint in Mosul on March 24. At some point during his 13-day detention, U.S. officials took custody of him, his father said, and he was not allowed to make phone calls or contact a lawyer. FBI agents visited Berg's parents in West Chester on March 31 and told the family they were trying to confirm their son's identity. On April 5, the Bergs sued the government in federal court in Philadelphia, contending that their son was being held illegally by the U.S. military.
  Berg was released the next day, and he told his parents he had not been mistreated. They did not hear from him after April 9.

  Now, he turns up dead on a highway, and then the video surfaces. Something smells fishy???

  Maybe there is more to this story than meets the eye.

  NOT THAT ANYTHING COULD JUSTIFY HIS TORTUROUS MURDER.

  btw,,, remember the 1993 Somalia scandal??? Canadian military commiting abuses on civilians --- I am NOT US bashing, I just don't trust military/government of any country, okay? And we can talk about my country's hypocracy and abuse of the poor, miltary's abuse anytime at all. I would relish it,,, trust me!

  thanks

  tal
• 

  blacksheep

  Michael Berg lashed out at the U.S. military and Bush administration, saying his son might still be alive if he had been allowed to leave the country on March 30, as he had originally planned.
  ``I think a lot of people are fed up with the lack of civil rights this thing has caused,'' he said. ``I don't think this administration is committed to democracy.''
  Nick Berg spoke to his parents on March 24 and said he would return home March 30. But he was detained by Iraqi police at a checkpoint in Mosul on March 24. At some point during his 13-day detention, U.S. officials took custody of him, his father said, and he was not allowed to make phone calls or contact a lawyer. FBI agents visited Berg's parents in West Chester on March 31 and told the family they were trying to confirm their son's identity. On April 5, the Bergs sued the government in federal court in Philadelphia, contending that their son was being held illegally by the U.S. military.
  Berg was released the next day, and he told his parents he had not been mistreated. They did not hear from him after April 9.

  Poor sad sod Dad is. What retribtuion is he going to POSSIBLY get from the Iraqi government? Who can the guy possibly blame? The only CIVIL, HUMANE government involved: the US. He'll never get a response from the people who actually COMMITTED the crime: the Iraqi/Al Queda whatever you want to call these sickos.

  He's got to find some civilized group who might be remotly WILLING to shoulder the blame: the US. He'll get no answer from the Islamofascists.

  And apparently, many people here don't EXPECT them to answer for anything.
• 

  blacksheep

  Nick Berg, political and cultural learning experience for BlackSheep. May he rest in peace.

  Yes, may he rest in peace. And may we finally realize that it's going to take a WWII bombing to finally be rid of these sub-human islamofascists.

  Falluja was carefully crafter to simulate the situation in Somalia, where, under Clinton's regime, we turned tail and rain when the going got tough.

  They Islamofascist pigs have us profiled as weak kneed, pampered, scared pansies who'll turn tail and run. (Oh, by the way, just as we figured out that they don't mind dying, but strip them naked and show women to be dominating them, all HELL breaks loose. Someone in our military figured that out.)

  Don't think I was suggesting we turn tail and run on these vermin. I think we just realized this "free them and liberate them because of course everyone wants to be free and liberated" doesn't cut it with these nations. Protects ourselves, turn the gov't over to them, and let them slice each other's throats for all I care.
• 

  Pork Chop

  Hannity gave considerable warning before he played the audio, and he's not the only one that has played it either so you can knock of the Hannity bashing. I think it's important that people understand just how horrible that this event was, that they also understand that this is not the first thing like this that's happened and it probably won't be the last. These people are evil. They were smiling, they enjoyed. And they'll do it to anyone in the US that they get a chance to kill. The despise and hate the liberals just as much as the conservatives, and they think they're weaker. I've lived and worked in the Middle East and have friends that are Middle Eastern and I have seen over and over again that the only thing that is respected is strength.

  Liberals like patio and six are willfully blind, they will make excuses for the perpetrators, regardless, and they will blame the US, regardless. They will seize any opportunity to condemn the US and the conservatives but in the end they'll expect to be protected by the same. They scurry under the cover of better people, and that includes civilians who are willing to go to Iraq and make a difference, who are willing to take a risk to make a profit. And if you think that makes them responsible for the butchery infllicted on them by terrorist scum then your political bigotry has stamped out your humanity.
• 

  SixofNine

  I think we just realized this "free them and liberate them because of course everyone wants to be free and liberated" doesn't cut it with these nations.

  770 dead American soldiers. 3000 + maimed for life American soldiers. 1200+ innocent Iraqis dead. Oh well, bag that little social experiment. Hey, let's try WWII style bombing!

  So where do we start with the firebombs? Or are you suggesting nukes? Yeah, of course you are. So where do we start your little experiment in mass murder, now that your take-this-democracy-sorta-thing-or-we'll-shoot-you experiment has grown tiresome for you, Blacksheep?
• 

  SixofNine

  and they will blame the US

  I am the US. And I certainly will never rely on conservatives to keep me safe, that would be counterproductive, to say the least. I don't blame the US, I blame idiots like GW Bush. What, you sodomizers of my country thought we'd let you keep the flag you stole?

  
• 

  talesin

  He'll get no answer from the Islamofascists.

  You are absolutely right on that. They are effing terrorists, there is no rhyme or reason to what they do, their cruelty knows no bounds.

  I was more looking for a reason why he was first detained in Iraqi, then US custody, and his parents sued the gov't, then he was released. It is weird, to me? I always have to question everything. Then he turned up dead a month later. I don't know, this war, has so much hidden stuff, yeah, we don't really know what's going on in the back rooms of the power brokers, etc. That's all.

  Oh christ, let's not bother with it anymore. Eventually, we will hopefully have more information. Then, six months or a year from now, we will be able to say to each other,,, jeezzz, I'm glad we didn't get too mad at each other over this bull.

  The poor guy,,, it makes me sick and I did not watch/listen to the video. I have enough nightmares as it is. As Wasa said, it disgusts me that people can do this to each other. I am ashamed to be a member of the human race right now. Anal rape is no picnic either,,,, I KNOW,,, it is torture as well, and lasts much longer than one minute. Plus, you have to live with the memories for the rest of your life. Having been a victim of rape and torture myself, many times over, it is painfully clear to me what the prisoners and Mr. Berg went through.
• 

  Cassiline

  Hi Cassi,

  I don't think it's a two-option only scenario: either grieve for him or blame him. There are just a lot of sides to the story. It doesn't mean the man shouldn't be grieved, but it also doesn't mean that certain factors shouldn't be known. The man was in a war zone, on his own. He was not a soldier. He was an American Jew. He was in horrible danger. As you said, maybe it was comparable to a person putting themself in a high-risk activity. But in no way is anyone saying he shouldn't be grieved.

  It seems to me that people should want to know all the facts available. If nothing else, to prevent someone else from getting into dangerous situations unneccessarily.

  Imo, this is just more of the picture. Are we so protected that it hurts us to read the Washington Times and comments about it?

  Pat

  Hey Pat

  Sorry I was called away. Imagine an elderly man at a football game, he is afflicted with parkinsons disease. He truly enjoys sports and attends a game. While at the game an errant ball comes his direction, in the furious grabbing and running to gain possession of the ball by other fans he is trampled to death because he is unable to move as fast as he did in his youth.

  His family is heart broken they are horrified at the notion that the fans killed their father over a football. But you say to them; "oh well he put himself in a dangerous situation, he was aged, diseased, and could not hear properly because he was old. He should have known better and never put himself in that situation".

  The family stands back in aghast because of showing remorse over his death you pointed out what you may see as faults and said he should have not be allowed to do something he enjoyed and therefore due to the danger it's 80% (assign any value) his fault.

  I just do not see the need to assign blame to an innocent or to point out 10 reasons they should have not done something prior to their death or they did something to contribute to their death.

  Cassi
  
• 

  SixofNine

  He truly enjoys sports and attends a game. While at the game an errant ball comes his direction, in the furious grabbing and running to gain possession of the ball by other fans he is trampled to death because he is unable to move as fast as he did in his youth.

  There is probably a whole semester to be taught at Berkley about freak accidents and their relevance to war-time situations vis a vis the middle east. I'd probably fail.
• 

  ohiocowboy

  I too could not watch the video, nor hear the tape. Sometimes I get too depressed as it is, and just hearing about what happened to this guy really makes me sick to my stomach that the human animal can be as cruel as it is. I remember the thread a couple of weeks ago about humans being better than animals-better at what-cruelty, vindictiveness, torture and murder? It seems that many times the people that try to do good for others, are usually the ones that get "Shafted", or take the blame. After untold thousands of years that mankind has been around here, gracing this glorious world with it's presence, barbarism still plays a key part in society. I think I would be more proud being a Dog.

  Condolences to the Berg Family...